Hi,

Nigel thanks for the reply. I'm starting this as a separate thread
otherwise the original thread (with a different topic) would have become
unnecessarily long and confusing...

First I want to be sure that we are talking about the same product I.e.
Crystal Analysis and NOT the latest version of Crystal Reports. Right? I
am also under the assumption the the cost of Crystal Analysis is very
close to the costs of ProClarity or Nova or others??

I had not heard of Executive Viewer and will search the web for it's web
site and trial version.

You've stated that:
Though my knowledge and experience as compared to you and many others
who reply in these forums is REALLY insignificant but is it really true
that MSDA should be considered as, say, an add-on/special purpose front-
end for a few users ONLY AFTER we have some other OLAP front-end in
place and being used ??? Please advise. I personally find MSDA to have
some features (which you have mentioned) that I have not found (so far)
in the demo/trial versions of the other options that we are considering.
Having said this, I do FULLY agree about the latter part of your
comments regarding the limitations of MSDA/it's probable future. I say
this because some of the other options that I have seen do offer some
nice things which MSDA does not have... I personally have a LONG wish
list of these but off-hand I would say that the single charting option
of MSDA (I.e. the pie) is just not good enough... I wonder why MS is not
paying attention on this front?

Maybe I have already explored and am playing with what you have referred
to as 'comparing multiple dimensions at once'. However can you kindly
elaborate a bit more on exactly what you are talking about here? I am
assuming that others do NOT offer this feature at all??


Last question: Are COGNOS and Micro Strategy also considered OLAP front-
end tools are are they a totally different league? I mean, I'm assuming
that they are not just OLAP front-ends but also replace Analysis
Services and offer MANY MORE things (which I am not aware of)? Can you
please explain this part too a bit.

Many thanks.

Yes, of course I meant Crystal Analysis and not Crystal Reports (they're
reviewed in The OLAP Report). The latter does include some basic OLAP
functionality inherited from Crystal Analysis, but it's not meant for
interactive use (and isn't very good at OLAP reporting either). Both
come with the Premium edition of CE.

Yes, MS-DA was never meant to be used as an OLAP client on its own, as
it lacks the basics for that role. It was always intended to an
analytical add-on, to be used with products like ProClarity. You really
need to know its history as Maximal Max to fully understand how it was
meant to be used -- Microsoft hasn't been as clear as it should be.

MS-DA does have some unique capabilities, and some people find it very
useful, but most don't quite "get it". If what you want to do is to
produce nicely formatted multidimensional reports and charts, MS-DA is
not the product for you. But if you want to explore certain cubes (not
all are suitable) and gain new insights, it might be. But whether you
like it or you don't, it's unlikely that Microsoft has any plans to
enhance it.

Of course, just because MS-DA appears to be dead, you shouldn't assume
that Microsoft doesn't have other OLAP front-end plans -- for example, a
new free Excel add-in is expected to be released next month, and this
may be good enough for you. If not, there are several better third party
options available.

Cognos and MicroStrategy offer full client, server and Web capabilities.
Depending on your needs, they may or may not offer you more than
Analysis Services + one or more good client tools, but they will
certainly cost you a lot more. In the OLAP area, PowerPlay isn't really
any more functional than Analysis Services, and in some ways is less
functional. It's also less scalable. Of course, Cognos also offers
separate planning products that are better than Analysis Services for
such apps.

Nigel Pendse
http://www.olapreport.com

"Learner" <wantnospam (AT) email (DOT) com> wrote

Cannot see the danish product Targit mentioned....where are you on this,
Nigel ?

Ps. Not because I favor it ... would like to hear your opinion.

\Michael V.

"Nigel Pendse" <nigelp.nospam (AT) olapreport (DOT) com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:O9Qo8ZFMEHA.3012 (AT) tk2msftngp13 (DOT) phx.gbl...

I looked at Targit Analysis about three years ago and wasn't too
impressed; no doubt it's been improved since then, but I suspect the
basic architecture hasn't changed. It was originally designed to provide
simple multidimensional analysis of data stored in relational databases,
and therefore included a desktop cube engine. This is similar to the
BusinessObjects thick client architecture.

This isn't a good architecture for working with powerful OLAP servers
that can do the multidimensional calculations themselves, and isn't how
tools optimized for Analysis Services work. It means that you're likely
to get both more functionality and better performance is you pick such a
tool.

"Michael Vardinghus" <michaelvardinghus (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Hi Nigel,

Few last questions from my side for now. Your reply will be appreciated
and sorry for the botheration in advance:

1) Is MSDA the ONLY OLAP front-end tool which allows comparing multiple
dimensions at the same time (in the manner which it allows to do so)?

2) Is this 'expected' new free Excel add-on from Microsoft going to be
very much like a Pivot control or would be in totally different in terms
of look n feel AND features?

3) Is Crystal Analysis in the same "price range" as ProClarity or Nova
View (for example) or is it more like MSDA (.I.i.e.. VERY affordabale)

4) Any clues from where I can get the background history of MSDA (from
Maximal Max) :-) I think this will clarify a lot of things for me.
Besides it's always good to know the background and that little extra

5) Just a comments from my side: The very few and limited capabilities
of MSDA are not bad at all. I guess I am one of those few who fall under
your defined category of users who "get it and know what they are
looking for"

6) Regarding the other possiblee OLAP Front-end. Here's the list I have
(compiled form various posts over here) and please let me know ow if you
think I MUST at least consider any one that is not mentioned. My sole
criteria is that whatever we finally go for as an addition to NMSDA
(which we already have) must have a desktop version, does not require
IIS, and if it's in the form of Excel Add-in then it MUST be MUCH better
than the simple Pivot feature that's already in Excel.
- ProClarity
- Nova View
- Executive Viewer
- Data Warehouse Explorer
- Targit ??? (The one which Michael has mentioned)
- BIXL
- IntelligentApps
- MIS Plain
- Visual OLAP
- XLCubed
- Hope haven't missed any?

Many thanks.

Hi Nigel,

Few last questions from my side for now. Your reply will be appreciated
and sorry for the botheration in advance:

1) Is MSDA the ONLY OLAP front-end tool which allows comparing multiple
dimensions at the same time (in the manner which it allows to do so)?

2) Is this 'expected' new free Excel add-on from Microsoft going to be
very much like a Pivot control or would be in totally different in terms
of look n feel AND features?

3) Is Crystal Analysis in the same "price range" as ProClarity or Nova
View (for example) or is it more like MSDA (I.i.e.. VERY affordabale)

4) Any clues from where I can get the background history of MSDA (from
Maximal Max) :-) I think this will clarify a lot of things for me.
Besides it's always good to know the background and that little extra

5) Just a comments from my side: The very few and limited capabilities
of MSDA are not bad at all. I guess I am one of those few who fall under
your defined category of users who "get it and know what they are
looking for"

6) Regarding the other possible OLAP Front-end. Here's the list I have
(compiled form various posts over here) and please let me know ow if you
think I MUST at least consider any one that is not mentioned. My sole
criteria is that whatever we finally go for as an addition to MSDA
(which we already have) must have a desktop version, does not require
IIS, and if it's in the form of Excel Add-in then it MUST be MUCH better
than the simple Pivot feature that's already in Excel.
- ProClarity
- Nova View
- Executive Viewer
- Data Warehouse Explorer
- Targit ??? (The one which Michael has mentioned)
- BIXL
- IntelligentApps
- MIS Plain
- Visual OLAP
- XLCubed
- Hope haven't missed any?

Many thanks.

"Learner" <wantnospam (AT) email (DOT) com> wrote

No, it's not the only one. For example, both NovaView and Targit
Analysis include similar ideas.

It's similar to other Excel add-ins, and includes write-back and formula
based data retrieval. It's much superior to PivotTables, as are most
Excel add-ins. It works with Excel 2002 and 2003.

It's cheaper than ProClarity and NovaView, but more than MS-DA.

I'm not sure where you'd find it on the Web. Of course, I was closely
involved and know most of the details, right from when development first
started in early 1998.

MS-DA certainly does some clever stuff, and some people love it (if I
hadn't liked the ideas six years ago, it would probably never have been
developed). But it still isn't suitable as a general-purpose OLAP
client. And remember that no enhancements are likely, so anything it
doesn't do now it will probably never do.

You probably have missed a few, but that's more than enough to be going
on with.

As you seem to be cost conscious, why don't you wait for Microsoft's
free add-in next month and see if it does all you need? If it doesn't,
then look at the third party Excel add-ins -- they do more than the
Microsoft add-in, and aren't as expensive as most of the proprietary
clients. Customers seem to like them a lot.

Learner

O2OLAP for Excel can create any view of information that is required.
Modelling and data input is a synch and could not be easier. We believe the
functionality available is innovative and 15 months ahead of any of the
products being recommended. This is continuously confirmed by companies we
demonstrate to and who have evaluated the market and looked at what is being
recommended.

In the last month, O2OLAP for Excel passed a totally independent
verification test through Veritest, the official testers on behalf of MS. We
can also provide high profile references for O2OLAP for Excel. Experienced
OLAP resellers are now recommending O2OLAP for Excel.

Now also available through O2OLAP is a web interface that is innovative and
flexible. As a potential high profile experienced US based OLAP'er put it,
"Dynamite".

Please feel free to contact us. Seeing is believing.

Howard.Taylor@ domain below

Chartered Accountant (SA)

Microsoft Certified Partner

www.o2olap.com

"Learner" <wantnospam (AT) email (DOT) com> wrote

Michael

Have a look at O2OLAP. Our Danish partner knows Targit but have never had a
problem competing with their preferred OLAP products. They have implemented
for more than 100 of the top Danish companies and have a signficant amount
of OLAP experience.

Both web and Excel interfaces are available for Analysis Services. Having
developed OLAP products and solutions for Analysis Services we know where
the issues are. There are some fairly simple tests to differentiate Excel
based Analysis Services products.

Howard.Taylor@ domain below
Chartered Accountant (SA)
Microsoft Certified Partner
www.o2olap.com

"Michael Vardinghus" <michaelvardinghus (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Nigel,

Really appreciate your replies (make it SUPER FAST replies) :-) Many
thanks!

Yes at the moment cost is an issue but can be overridden if I have
enough knowledge about what the others offer and how they compare with
what we already have (MSDA)... But at the end of the day it will be a
bit difficult for me to suggest going for (for example) $ 900 per user
license instead of $ 100 per user license. I have to find out what the
others offer which MSDA does not. I agree with your suggestion that
waiting for the new add-on from MS is probably a wise move.


Thanks again and Regards.
P.S.
Also, thanks to Howard for the info. and URL about O2OLAP. Will try it
and see if there's a trial/demo version available. However what I am
looking for is at least the nice (yet the few) features which MSDA DOES
offer. However thanks again to Nigel for clarifying that Nova View and
Targit also offer these...
Does anyone have the URL for Targit?