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  #1  
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Joel
 
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Default Defunct Drives Issue - 03-28-2005 , 06:03 PM






We've been struggling with a problem for a while now. If anyone has has a
similiar issue, I'd appreciate it if you could share it here as it may lead
me to a solution... The Cluster houses SQL and IIS (bad I know, but it
shouldn't cause the problems we see)

We have the following Cluster hardware:

2 IBM x345 Servers
1 IBM ServeRAID 4MX (RAID 5)

Basically, whenever we have both machines connected to the cluster, at some
point (sometimes days, sometimes weeks) a failure will occur where the
Clustered drives (Data and Quorum) will become defunct. Bringing them back
online and restarting, etc works fine (but this takes a while and always
with risk).

I've been working with IBM for months now to try to troubleshoot this but
nothing has helped to make this a "highly available" environment.



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  #2  
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Geoff N. Hiten
 
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Default Re: Defunct Drives Issue - 03-28-2005 , 10:14 PM






From your description it looks like this is a SCSI cluster. Can you give a
complete description of the SCSI device as well as the physical(RAID) and
logical(LUN) disk layouts for the cluster. I have an idea where your
problem might be, but I need more information to be sure.

Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator


"Joel" <joelmacaluso (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
We've been struggling with a problem for a while now. If anyone has has a
similiar issue, I'd appreciate it if you could share it here as it may
lead me to a solution... The Cluster houses SQL and IIS (bad I know, but
it shouldn't cause the problems we see)

We have the following Cluster hardware:

2 IBM x345 Servers
1 IBM ServeRAID 4MX (RAID 5)

Basically, whenever we have both machines connected to the cluster, at
some point (sometimes days, sometimes weeks) a failure will occur where
the Clustered drives (Data and Quorum) will become defunct. Bringing them
back online and restarting, etc works fine (but this takes a while and
always with risk).

I've been working with IBM for months now to try to troubleshoot this but
nothing has helped to make this a "highly available" environment.





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  #3  
Old   
Joel
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: Defunct Drives Issue - 03-29-2005 , 10:04 AM



Thanks Geoff,

Here's what I think you are looking for:

1.)Both servers are equipped with 2x18GB (Array A) mirrored. They are
connected to the internal channel of the IBM4MX SCSI. This is the logical C:
and D: drives.
The external Channel 1 of the Raid controller connects to the shared scsi.

2.)Array B = 2x18 GB mirrored = Q drive (Quorum) slots 13-14. (Physical
device is a shared IBM SCSI storage array)

3)Array C= 5x18 Raid 5 = S drive (Shared) slots 0-4 (Physical device is
shared IBM SCSI storage array)

Summarized:

LUNs= Q: and S: [Storage Array-Arrays B&C]

C: and D: internal Server [Array A]


"Geoff N. Hiten" <SRDBA (AT) Careerbuilder (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
From your description it looks like this is a SCSI cluster. Can you give
a complete description of the SCSI device as well as the physical(RAID)
and logical(LUN) disk layouts for the cluster. I have an idea where your
problem might be, but I need more information to be sure.

Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator


"Joel" <joelmacaluso (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:%23qfT7o%23MFHA.4028 (AT) tk2msftngp13 (DOT) phx.gbl...
We've been struggling with a problem for a while now. If anyone has has
a similiar issue, I'd appreciate it if you could share it here as it may
lead me to a solution... The Cluster houses SQL and IIS (bad I know, but
it shouldn't cause the problems we see)

We have the following Cluster hardware:

2 IBM x345 Servers
1 IBM ServeRAID 4MX (RAID 5)

Basically, whenever we have both machines connected to the cluster, at
some point (sometimes days, sometimes weeks) a failure will occur where
the Clustered drives (Data and Quorum) will become defunct. Bringing
them back online and restarting, etc works fine (but this takes a while
and always with risk).

I've been working with IBM for months now to try to troubleshoot this but
nothing has helped to make this a "highly available" environment.







Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old   
Geoff N. Hiten
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: Defunct Drives Issue - 03-31-2005 , 08:58 AM



Looks like there is a problem sharing a controller between the clustered
resource and the local disk resources. Make the vendor show you where this
is a certified cluster solution. I don't thing shared controllers is
supported.

Any way you slice it, you will get very poor performance from a SCSI storage
array in a clustered environment using RAID5 containers. Clustering
requires that the controllers operate in direct-write mode (no write cache)
so RAID5 is extremely slow.


Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator

"Joel" <joelmacaluso (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
Thanks Geoff,

Here's what I think you are looking for:

1.)Both servers are equipped with 2x18GB (Array A) mirrored. They are
connected to the internal channel of the IBM4MX SCSI. This is the logical
C: and D: drives.
The external Channel 1 of the Raid controller connects to the shared scsi.

2.)Array B = 2x18 GB mirrored = Q drive (Quorum) slots 13-14. (Physical
device is a shared IBM SCSI storage array)

3)Array C= 5x18 Raid 5 = S drive (Shared) slots 0-4 (Physical device is
shared IBM SCSI storage array)

Summarized:

LUNs= Q: and S: [Storage Array-Arrays B&C]

C: and D: internal Server [Array A]


"Geoff N. Hiten" <SRDBA (AT) Careerbuilder (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:uiCzd1ANFHA.2136 (AT) TK2MSFTNGP14 (DOT) phx.gbl...
From your description it looks like this is a SCSI cluster. Can you give
a complete description of the SCSI device as well as the physical(RAID)
and logical(LUN) disk layouts for the cluster. I have an idea where your
problem might be, but I need more information to be sure.

Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator


"Joel" <joelmacaluso (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:%23qfT7o%23MFHA.4028 (AT) tk2msftngp13 (DOT) phx.gbl...
We've been struggling with a problem for a while now. If anyone has has
a similiar issue, I'd appreciate it if you could share it here as it may
lead me to a solution... The Cluster houses SQL and IIS (bad I know,
but it shouldn't cause the problems we see)

We have the following Cluster hardware:

2 IBM x345 Servers
1 IBM ServeRAID 4MX (RAID 5)

Basically, whenever we have both machines connected to the cluster, at
some point (sometimes days, sometimes weeks) a failure will occur where
the Clustered drives (Data and Quorum) will become defunct. Bringing
them back online and restarting, etc works fine (but this takes a while
and always with risk).

I've been working with IBM for months now to try to troubleshoot this
but nothing has helped to make this a "highly available" environment.









Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old   
R P
 
Posts: n/a

Default Re: Defunct Drives Issue - 04-12-2005 , 09:39 AM



This looks identical in concept to HP prepackaged cluster setup that I am
using in an extremely similar fashion (Internal Mirrors are C: only). Have
not have any problems similar to that in 7 months of running.

"Geoff N. Hiten" <sqlcraftsman (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:
Looks like there is a problem sharing a controller between the clustered
resource and the local disk resources. Make the vendor show you where
this
is a certified cluster solution. I don't thing shared controllers is
supported.

Any way you slice it, you will get very poor performance from a SCSI
storage
array in a clustered environment using RAID5 containers. Clustering
requires that the controllers operate in direct-write mode (no write
cache)
so RAID5 is extremely slow.


Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator

"Joel" <joelmacaluso (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:Of$K0BHNFHA.244 (AT) tk2msftngp13 (DOT) phx.gbl...
Thanks Geoff,

Here's what I think you are looking for:

1.)Both servers are equipped with 2x18GB (Array A) mirrored. They are
connected to the internal channel of the IBM4MX SCSI. This is the
logical
C: and D: drives.
The external Channel 1 of the Raid controller connects to the shared
scsi.

2.)Array B = 2x18 GB mirrored = Q drive (Quorum) slots 13-14. (Physical
device is a shared IBM SCSI storage array)

3)Array C= 5x18 Raid 5 = S drive (Shared) slots 0-4 (Physical device is
shared IBM SCSI storage array)

Summarized:

LUNs= Q: and S: [Storage Array-Arrays B&C]

C: and D: internal Server [Array A]


"Geoff N. Hiten" <SRDBA (AT) Careerbuilder (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:uiCzd1ANFHA.2136 (AT) TK2MSFTNGP14 (DOT) phx.gbl...
From your description it looks like this is a SCSI cluster. Can you
give
a complete description of the SCSI device as well as the physical(RAID)
and logical(LUN) disk layouts for the cluster. I have an idea where
your
problem might be, but I need more information to be sure.

Geoff N. Hiten
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
Senior Database Administrator


"Joel" <joelmacaluso (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message
news:%23qfT7o%23MFHA.4028 (AT) tk2msftngp13 (DOT) phx.gbl...
We've been struggling with a problem for a while now. If anyone has
has
a similiar issue, I'd appreciate it if you could share it here as it
may
lead me to a solution... The Cluster houses SQL and IIS (bad I know,
but it shouldn't cause the problems we see)

We have the following Cluster hardware:

2 IBM x345 Servers
1 IBM ServeRAID 4MX (RAID 5)

Basically, whenever we have both machines connected to the cluster, at
some point (sometimes days, sometimes weeks) a failure will occur
where
the Clustered drives (Data and Quorum) will become defunct. Bringing
them back online and restarting, etc works fine (but this takes a
while
and always with risk).

I've been working with IBM for months now to try to troubleshoot this
but nothing has helped to make this a "highly available" environment.











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