Richard Welty wrote:
OK, where did you get this wording? Is this something Berkeley released
as one of their versions of the BSD license.

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Richard Welty wrote:
I know we have updated our license in the past, particularly to remove
the advertizing clause. I think we grabbed FreeBSD's version. I don't
think we are inclined to update our wording unless there is a
significant reason to do so, and I don't think one project thinking it
is possibly confusing is enough, and of course, as you know, five
lawyers will give five different opinions.

--
Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 13:50:23 -0500 Tom Lane <tgl (AT) sss (DOT) pgh.pa.us> wrote:
but you can consult with the attorneys for the Regents. they have
changed the license at times, and have passed those changes on
to other BSD licensed projects (e.g., when they removed the
advertising clause the advertising clause was also removed from
all the code in the OpenBSD distribution that was inherited from
the original BSD project.)

i find this somewhat hostile response troubling.

it's common for geeks on the net to play at being lawyers, and it
is also common to discover later that the law doesn't work the way
the geeks want it to.

in the case of PostgreSQL's removal from the OpenBSD CDs, it
was done as part of an ongoing license audit -- and it is important
to note that it wasn't an uninformed decision. Theo actually consulted
with IP lawyers, and so there is some actual, direct legal advice
to the effect that the misplaced "without fee" clause is a potential
problem.

so in this case, Theo and the OpenBSD team aren't "playing
lawyer". they went to the trouble to actually talk to one.

if you go to the trouble to talk to the IP lawyers for the Regents,
you may find that you can easily get permission to migrate the
license to the current "BSD License".

richard
--
Richard Welty rwelty (AT) averillpark (DOT) net
Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592
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On Fri, Nov 28, 2003 at 04:50:40PM -0500, Richard Welty wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that also require permission from
every other contributer to PostgreSQL ever? I mean, hypothetically there
might be someone in there who disagrees with the change.

Not even the Regents can backdate a licence chage and have it affect all
subsequent contributions.
--=20
Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog (AT) svana (DOT) org> http://svana.org/kleptog/
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On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:23:56 -0500 (EST) Bruce Momjian <pgman (AT) candle (DOT) pha.pa.us> wrote:

the current wording in the OpenBSD source code is as follows. it was
last changed in July 1999, when the Regents dropped the old
3rd term (the advertising clause.)

* Copyright (c) 1982, 1986, 1990, 1991, 1993
* The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved.
*
* Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
* modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
* are met:
* 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
* notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
* 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
* notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
* documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
* 3. Neither the name of the University nor the names of its contributors
* may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software
* without specific prior written permission.
*
* THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND
* ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
* IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
* ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE REGENTS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE
* FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
* DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS
* OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION)
* HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT
* LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY
* OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
* SUCH DAMAGE.


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Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592
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On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 09:01:39 +1100 Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog (AT) svana (DOT) org> wrote:
i don't. i'm a geek who is refusing to play lawyer right now. it might
be a good idea to consult with one.

note, however, that the copyright assignment is to:

Portions Copyright (c) 1996-2002, The PostgreSQL Global Development Group

Portions Copyright (c) 1994, The Regents of the University of California

which suggests that the Regents and "The PostgreSQL Global
Development Group" hold the rights, and so those are the only two
entities that would need to grant permission. i'm not sure what kind
of legal entity the PostgreSQL Global Development Group is,
though. it might end up meaning each individual, if it's not an
actual corporation. there's no substitute for an informed legal
opinion on this subject. is one available?

richard
--
Richard Welty rwelty (AT) averillpark (DOT) net
Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592
Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security


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On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:58:19 -0500 (EST) Bruce Momjian <pgman (AT) candle (DOT) pha.pa.us> wrote:
yes, i believe that it originally came from the Berkeley lawyers.

richard
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Averill Park Networking 518-573-7592
Java, PHP, PostgreSQL, Unix, Linux, IP Network Engineering, Security


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