On Nov 11, 2004, at 1:56 PM, Max wrote:

Sorry, but I think that's about as silly a statement as I've read on
this list. I have never seen
any Oracle, DB2, or Sybase materials that claim 'We're big time - we
have a legit
comp..... newsgroup' (that would imply you could get support without
paying for it).

Honestly, people here generally don't give a hoot what the other 'big'
databases do (which is
as opposite from an identity problem as I can think off). The by-far
easiest way to get a proposed
feature rejected is to say 'we should do this because xxxx does it
this way'. PR and marketing
are not huge concerns on any of the lists other than advocacy. The
various attempts to promote
postgres (commercial or not) have generally been dismal, but somehow
the product advances....

That being said, most people can understand that there is/may be a
problem with the way the
group is accessed for many people, or the way it should have set up
whenever. However,
to a large portion of this group it isn't a pressing issue right off,
so there is significant inertia
to overcome.


Andrew Rawnsley
President
The Ravensfield Digital Resource Group, Ltd.
(740) 587-0114
www.ravensfield.com


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On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:26:21 -0500, Andrew Rawnsley
<ronz (AT) ravensfield (DOT) com> wrote:
I also think such "reasons" would be simply stupid.
Next thing would be maybe making sure PostgreSQL will be the
first thing returned whenever someone types in "database" into
Google. ;-)))

I tend to look at it from complete different angle. Let's leave the
group stuff for a while and think about SQL. PostgreSQL seeks
to conform SQL standards as much as it is reasonable. I think
it is good approach, I feel it's much better than creating a new SQL
syntax for every obstacle encountered. And if there is some
"PostgreSQLism" which could be converted to SQL standard, then
I guess it's worth doing at least for the sake of following the standards.

And now, some time ago, PostgreSQL mailing lists were gatewayed
into Big8 namespace, to help people access them by other means.
Only it was done "unoffically", i.e. not following standard procedure
for such things. It could be thought of as "hooking up" to neighbour's
cable TV cables, only it does not involve stealing. Well, I'm sure
it's easy to find many better comparable situations.
Anyway, it's a bit kludgy, not following standards. It would be nice
however to maybe go to the cable guys and tell them -- connect us
officialy. Not because Oracle users did so. No, it's foolish reason.
Because it's Right, because it makes us closer to Standards, because
to be respected means to respect others. Etc, etc. etc.

It's sad that there was so much noise about it... I know I may not
be helping much to solve situation, but at least I'm trying.

Regards.
Dawid

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Dawid Kuroczko <qnex42 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Another analogy would be to squatters building houses on public land.
Then, years later, one of them goes to the zoning commission and tries
to get the proper permits issued to give them legitimate use of the land
they're occupying... but some of the residents want to stay unofficial
because they're afraid outsiders will want to move into the community
if it becomes "legal."

--
Wayne Brown (HPCC #1104) | "When your tail's in a crack, you improvise
fwbrown (AT) bellsouth (DOT) net | if you're good enough. Otherwise you give

This is absolutely not what I am saying. I am saying that postgresql
is perceived as a marginal database and that as such it would be
a good thing for it to be on the big8 newsgroups, and make people
realize that it's not that marginal at all.

Readers watch out: I don't mean to bruise anybody's ego by saying this,
and I am not trying to start a flame.

I have just observed that whenever I suggest using postgresql
instead of SQL server at work (because I *hate* SQL server),
all our distributers start to scream. Because they don't know
anything about it!

heck! I love this product!

Our customers pay big bucks for our systems, and they feel more comfortable
buying SQL server licenses or Oracle than dealing with postgresql. And that
pisses me off, because postgresql solves so many of our issues.... soooo...
a small step towards
not being that marginal could be towards having a legitimate newsgroup.

I agree 100%, but I think this is off topic.

Right. For me, the day (not that far) we do integrate postgresql into our
product, I would like
to point my customers to a newsgroup, not to a high volume mailing list.

Max



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Absolutely!

Nicely put

This is exactly what I was trying to say.

Max


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A few more points --

Just out of curiousity, does your mail reader do filtering?

Watch the newsgroups on Google archives? ;-)

http://groups.google.com/groups?grou...gresql.general

Well, until the kooks (one kook?) gets bored, there's not much to do
about it now. Mike stirred up the kooks, but we can't undo that. In the
meantime, if you see the f* word in a post, assume it's from the kook
and don't give it any further thought.

It was not the USENET folks' decision. It was only that Marc had reasons
of his own (maybe just not enough time? Heh.) to formally request the
namespace allocation.

Those were not typical. I'm not even sure they were posted to try to
push opinion against formalizing the groups. What I see in news.groups
indicates to me they are just trying to see how many people they can get
to gag. Ignore them and pretty seen they get bored and go look for other
prey.

--
Joel <rees (AT) ddcom (DOT) co.jp>


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Marc,

Should we leave this as is, or would you like someone to pick the RFD
back up?

(Yes, I'm saying I can volunteer. My pace would be a bit slow, but that
might actually be an advantage.)

(And, BTW, Mike, thanks for trying.)

--
Joel <rees (AT) ddcom (DOT) co.jp>


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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Joel wrote:

I'm not in the resistance group, but I am in the 'makes no difference
either way' one ... its up to you ...


----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy (AT) hub (DOT) org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

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I think a "dirty"/unacceptable words filter would get rid of most of those
garbage posts.
While a few real posts might not get through because of it, I feel that it
will keep the quality of posts on a higher level.


"GreyGeek" <jkreps (AT) neb (DOT) rr.com> wrote