On Saturday, in article <2v5jonF2hmf8kU1 (AT) uni-berlin (DOT) de>
mikecoxlinux (AT) yahoo (DOT) com "Mike Cox" wrote:

Mike makes here a VERY valid point about the mailing list vs newsgroups
controversy: often there is no means to search past articles from the
mailing list unless one maintains one's own complete archive thereof. In
contrast, posts of articles to *public* newsgroups (which includes the
Big-8, alt.*, and thousands of national and other hierarchies, such as
demon.*) are generally[1] archived by GoogleGroups, and thereby readily
searchable.

Private so-called newsgroups, which are carried on only one (or a handful
of cooperating) server(s), and mailing lists ditto, need to make their
own arrangements for archiving (which they often do) and providing a
search capability (which they often don't).

Newsgroups are much more flexible from the end-users' POV; however, there
is a huge percentage of Internet users that are completely unaware of
the existence of the concept. In contrast, they perceive using a mailing
list is no different to mailing one person (as, sadly, can often be
observed when mailing list participants use nasty habits picked up from
using Outlook Express in inter-office memoranda).

[1] Except, of course, where the poster uses X-No-Archive: Yes
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly} bhk (AT) dsl (DOT) co.uk
"I don't use Linux. I prefer to use an OS supported by a large multi-
national vendor, with a good office suite, excellent network/internet
software and decent hardware support."

On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 22:27:08 -0600, Dave Balderstone
I agree. The idea of the Usenet group comp.databases.postgresql is
sound, and I think it really should be created, so go on with the RFD
process.

I think group should NOT be mail-gated to pgsql maillists. IMHO
"Big 8" groups and maillists serve different purposes.

I think having "local" mail-news gateways is good (like ones already
existing), but IMHO there is vast difference between "local" gateways
and full-blown "Big 8" network.

And finally, I think "comp.databases.postgresql.*" names are poor
choice for "local" gateway. They clash with "Big 8" servers and most
properly configured newsservers will not pass such groups. And in
future, when Big8 c.d.postgresql.* matures, some clashes are
inevitable. I personally think postgresql.* names for "local" gate
is THE right way (and it would make it OK to pass the feed without said
clash).

Regards,
Dawid

PS: And I think one should ask if it is OK to propose someone else as
Big8 group gateway admin/moderator/etc before doing so. It was...
uncourteous...

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Brian {Hamilton Kelly} wrote:

There is also the point of having to post. If I post and I subscribe to the
digest version or if I post with the option of no emails (since my inbox
cannot handle the load), how would I respond to a thread I created? Would
I have to create a new thread for each response nameing the Subject with
the previous one, and prefixing it with "RE:"?

The usenet experience is more seemless and efficient IMHO. That is why I
rarely subscribe to mailing lists. The KLM (kernel mailing list) destroyed
my inbox after a few hours and I bet the postgresql mailing list would do
the same if I didn't delete my inbox within a few days.

A news reader is meant for the high amount of posts that many groups get.
An email inbox is not meant to have hundreds of emails weekly (or daily in
the case of KLM). Email is personal, so one knows that each messege is
addressed to you and could be very important. In usenet, one can choose to
follow threads created by themselves or with browse, knowing that if they
miss an article it won't be something that can have a personal consequence
like email.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 12:55:06 -0800
Mike Cox <mikecoxlinux (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

postgresql-general averages in the light-to-moderate range, between 30
to 80 posts a day. It's not that bad, although it would not feel so
great if you were on dial-up.

Incidentally, there are several archives, including the one at

http://marc.theaimsgroup.com
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=post...eneral&r=1&w=2

which picks posts up very quickly.

Might be useful until a charter can be worked out that reflects the list
policies.

http://www.postgresql.org/lists.html
http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/

For instance, as I understand it, you will need to specified that it is
moderated at the SPAM-block level.

Since they seem to be concerned about whether Marc (all by himself?)
would be appropriate, particularly on the usenet side, perhaps it would
be good to set up a group of moderators? Ideally, they could be spread
around the globe and take shifts, to get good time coverage.

Oh, and thanks, Mike, for stirring up the hornets' nest. ;-P
(Somebody had to take the brunt of it.)

--
Joel <rees (AT) ddcom (DOT) co.jp>


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On Mon, Nov 08, 2004 at 12:55:06PM -0800, Mike Cox wrote:
Some mail readers allow you to insert the In-Reply-To: header, which
would make your posts match the previous thread. But it is irritating.
Besides, I like being able to see from the subject what a post is
about.

I must have missed the memo, I've been receiving hundreds of email per
week for quite a while now and it works for me. Obviously, I configured
my client to optimise for this. I have several views setup, one which
shows only personal email, one which only shows unread, etc. With
subsecond switching times between views, it makes handling large
amounts of email very efficicent.

I used to like usenet for handling really large volumes, but I couldn't
customise any clients to allow me to manage it efficiently.

Anyway, this whole debate is about making the current mail-news gateway
setup legitimate, so maybe we should get back to the issue at hand.
--
Martijn van Oosterhout <kleptog (AT) svana (DOT) org> http://svana.org/kleptog/
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On Sun, 7 Nov 2004, Russ Allbery wrote:

Note that I'm not against making them moderated ... it changes nothing as
far as how things are handled on the lists themselves, since the moderator
address would be the mailing list itself, not a single person ... either
way, they'd end up getting the "your post is yet to be approved" message
if they aren't already subscribed (with nomail option enabled, optimally)
....

----
Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy (AT) hub (DOT) org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664

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