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#21

Hi Jaye
You are getting closer. The precise meaning of a word is defined by the
context. Here is another one for you to consider.
"First Lady" I understand from this thread should now be "First Woman".
Does this refer to a licentious temptress, Eve; Mrs G W Bush; or the
position of helpmate to the US President? The latter should be interesting,
when Hilary ascends the throne does Bill become First Lady? Better still if
Condie cracks the nod who will she appoint? Maybe we will find out who has
been behind her rise to power.
As I said, context defines all.
Peter McMurray
<infoattaloncsdotcomdotau> wrote

Quote:

Hi,

On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:13:04 GMT, "Peter McMurray"
excalibur21 (AT) bigpond (DOT) com> wrote:

Hi
What a fascinating diversion Dawn has caused.
"Sacristan" as the subject of the clause is a position. It is filled by
either a man or a woman, in fact it could even be filled by an
hermaphrodite.
My usage is perfectly correct.

Under my own steam this time, still not knowing......

So, presuming you wanted to use a correct form of English, you really
wanted to say:

"The position of Sacristan has been held by a woman for the past 15
years"

Not: >> and the sacristan has been a woman for the last 15 years.

I'm starting to see a glimmer of understanding in Bruce's discussion
with me this moning.

HenryV: "Methinks, he's right"
Jaye

#22

Homer L. Hazel wrote:

Quote:

Greetings,

Surely you folks are not talking about being a Marine?? I did not see
any capital letters, so obviously you were not!

Larry Hazel
Former Marine

A Woman Marine Sacristan. I'd go just to see the crease on
the altar linens.

Patrick, <;=)

Quote:

"Tony Gravagno" <g6q3x9lu53001 (AT) sneakemail (DOT) com.invalid> wrote in message
news:bn40r2t53f6h8klaohkm4uh1qspnpd0ue2 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com...
As I understand it, once a marine, always a marine. At that point I
don't know whether it's logical to say your friend is no longer a
woman, perhaps never was, or that I'm focused on the wrong subject and
this person is no longer your friend. S'ok dude, ya still have us! ;b

Now that I've exercised (exorcised?) my logic muscle I think I'll
write some code.

"Mark Brown" wrote:

Yes? And what was the sacristan 15 years ago, before she was a woman?

I mean, I have a friend who has been a woman for over 20 years. Before
that
she was a marine.

)

Mark

"Excalibur" wrote
big snip> (thinking of Bruce's bandwidth.

and the sacristan has been a woman for the last 15
years.
Why, pray tell, what was she before that? Ba-rump-bump.
Oh! Dawn. Where is your English grammar manual? The subject of the
clause
is "sacristan".
:-)
Peter McMurray

#23

infoattaloncsdotcomdotau wrote:

Quote:

I have very little idea why - Oh, I know "why I'm doing it"; I'm not
too sure "why it's being done" - but my boss (is that the "Bruce" in
"Bruce's bandwidth"?) asked me to respond with just 2 words:

Hoist Petard

(He did say "hoist and petard", but even I know that's 3 words)

Have I unwittingly, once again, let myself in for something of which I
should know better? If he has done it to me again, I'll get very
angry. But, I've done his bidding. One more time.

The term implied is "hoist with your own petard". A petard is a siege
bomb, usually planted by hand. If the poor sod given the job of placing
the thing happened to get pinned down or simply misjudge his timing, he
would be "hoist", or blown sky high, by his own bomb.

The relevance to Peter's case is, I suppose, that he was saying that the
grammatical and logical ambiguity that Dawn cleverly employed to make
her joke did not exist, but it clearly does. So in trying to appear
clever, he achieved the reverse. Hence, he is "hoist".

At least, that's my take.

Luke

#24

infoattaloncsdotcomdotau wrote:

Quote:

Bruce called earlier to ask me to look in his filing cabinet to find,
and pass on, a letter to the editor of the Melboune "Age" he'd had
published a few years ago.

It seems as if the letter was prompted by a report about an author who
had commented "My girfriend was black at the time" At this Bruce
asked "What colour was she before that? And after?"

Great minds?

Well, he is my boss

Heh. I missed the mail address. The petard thing is now explained.

So Bruce is your boss? I hope he pays you well. ;^)

Luke

#25

Hi,

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 21:25:59 +1100, Luke Webber <luke (AT) webber (DOT) com.au>
wrote:

Quote:

Heh. I missed the mail address. The petard thing is now explained.

So Bruce is your boss? I hope he pays you well. ;^)

Actually, I am only sitting in the chair while poor Bruce is "playing
catch-up with his germs" (his term)

Pay? What's "pay"? I've never seen any of that. Bruce told me at
the beginning that "pay" was what other people get, people of the low
and middle management roles, while I, up here at the decision-making
level, don't need to dirty my hands or thoughts on such mundane
matters. "Just learn to adapt to going without - like us PBOs have
to do" was one of his pearls as he slipped out the door.

"PBO"? "Poor Bloody Owner" I understand

BTW the man in question (the questionable man?) called while I was in
the middle of the long para. Seems he's heard of you Luke. He
mentioned Tasmania but I'm not going to ask the question he said I
should. Why would I want to know which head you were using today?
And him being "Bruce". I thought he was related to all of you people
from Tasmania. You would think he'd be kinder to his own.

And when I read him your other item, he remarked "Very astute of him
to pick it up" - Congratulations! A nod from the great man. That is
rare, I believe.

Oh well. "Smoko's over.", he said, "Back on your hands."

Sometimes!

Jaye

Jaye

#26

Hi Luke and Jaye
Pretty good description of petard, although I would have mentioned it was
typically placed within a tunnel under the barricades so getting hoist was
very dodgy.
Re the ambiguity I have to disagree. It is only ambiguous if you ignore the
context.
Further clarification is obviously needed as to places of residence. Ross
lives in the wilds of New South Wales, an earthquake prone place (who needs
petards) called Newcastle whereas I live in the centre of the Universe -
Northern Tasmania - where everyone knows that two heads are better than one.
:-)
Peter McMurray
"Luke Webber" <luke (AT) webber (DOT) com.au> wrote

Quote:

infoattaloncsdotcomdotau wrote:

I have very little idea why - Oh, I know "why I'm doing it"; I'm not
too sure "why it's being done" - but my boss (is that the "Bruce" in
"Bruce's bandwidth"?) asked me to respond with just 2 words:

Hoist Petard

(He did say "hoist and petard", but even I know that's 3 words)

Have I unwittingly, once again, let myself in for something of which I
should know better? If he has done it to me again, I'll get very
angry. But, I've done his bidding. One more time.

The term implied is "hoist with your own petard". A petard is a siege
bomb, usually planted by hand. If the poor sod given the job of placing
the thing happened to get pinned down or simply misjudge his timing, he
would be "hoist", or blown sky high, by his own bomb.

The relevance to Peter's case is, I suppose, that he was saying that the
grammatical and logical ambiguity that Dawn cleverly employed to make
her joke did not exist, but it clearly does. So in trying to appear
clever, he achieved the reverse. Hence, he is "hoist".

At least, that's my take.

Luke

#27

infoattaloncsdotcomdotau wrote:

Quote:

Hi,

Actually, I am only sitting in the chair while poor Bruce is "playing
catch-up with his germs" (his term)

Sounds like the germs are winning, see below.

Quote:

Pay? What's "pay"? I've never seen any of that. Bruce told me at
the beginning that "pay" was what other people get, people of the low
and middle management roles, while I, up here at the decision-making
level, don't need to dirty my hands or thoughts on such mundane
matters. "Just learn to adapt to going without - like us PBOs have
to do" was one of his pearls as he slipped out the door.

"PBO"? "Poor Bloody Owner" I understand

BTW the man in question (the questionable man?) called while I was in
the middle of the long para. Seems he's heard of you Luke. He
mentioned Tasmania but I'm not going to ask the question he said I
should. Why would I want to know which head you were using today?
And him being "Bruce". I thought he was related to all of you people
from Tasmania. You would think he'd be kinder to his own.

Peter's the Taswegian, though if you scratch the surface, he's really a
Pom. Sorry Peter, but once a Pom, always a Pom <g>. I'm a Melburnian
these days, but originally from Sydney. My wife is Tasmanian, but has
had the op.

Quote:

And when I read him your other item, he remarked "Very astute of him
to pick it up" - Congratulations! A nod from the great man. That is
rare, I believe.

It's a function of being bloody old. You remember expressions which are
no longer in vogue. I'm nearly old enough to have been a petardier
myself. <g>

Quote:

Oh well. "Smoko's over.", he said, "Back on your hands."

I've got some sewage in my ears as well. Happens to the best of us.

Cheers,
Luke