Updating MV Family Tree

#11

"frosty" <frostyj (AT) bogus (DOT) tld> wrote:

Quote:

Luke Webber wrote:
I see you have the hardware associated with a few platforms.
In addition to Honeywell for Ultimate there was the DEC (VAX)
Ultimate, which I believe was a firmware implementation - and
significant in its own right for that.

The Honeywell Level 6 and DPS6 implementations were firmware, as were
the earlier DEC QBus versions (the 1500, 2000 and 3000 series). But I
don't believe the VAX version was.

Level 6 "firmware" was contained in Writable Control Store (WCS)
which was a little softer than firm; it was a RAM, not a ROM.

Also, not all the O/S was in the WCS; the equivalent of "monitor code"
was written in assembly language. In some of the earlier releases, a
few of the "Pick" virtual assembly language instructions were executed
in software, as well.

I remember now that the boot sequence off the front panel of a Level 6
prompted for the Ultimate boot tape and allowed for some diagnostics,
so some part of the monitor was in firmware. I worked on all three of
the DECs, 1500, 2000, 3000 so I know those for sure - and yes, VAX was
VAX. Thanks for the correction.

T

#12

frosty wrote:

Quote:

Luke Webber wrote:

The Honeywell Level 6 and DPS6 implementations were firmware, as were
the earlier DEC QBus versions (the 1500, 2000 and 3000 series). But I
don't believe the VAX version was.

Level 6 "firmware" was contained in Writable Control Store (WCS)
which was a little softer than firm; it was a RAM, not a ROM.

Well, yeah, but it operated very much the same as a firmware processor.
I think it might even have used the same bit-slice processor
architecture as other firmware boards. The fact that firmware was
written at boot time was really just a bonus.

The later Ultimate-specific processors wee also writeable, of course,
but much faster than the original WCS.

Quote:

Also, not all the O/S was in the WCS; the equivalent of "monitor code"
was written in assembly language. In some of the earlier releases, a
few of the "Pick" virtual assembly language instructions were executed
in software, as well.

Not many, but some. They were just cross-assembled to MCAL instructions.

Luke

#13

"dawn" <dawnwolthuis (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

Tony Gravagno wrote:
Thanks for the effort Dawn. You'll need to get confirmation of these
notes, my memory is real vague on all this and I never was a Pick
history buff. I did have more notes but scratched them the closer I
looked.

I see you have the hardware associated with a few platforms.

I put in some that I thought might be of historical significance.
Showing IBM at the start (at the same time Codd was at IBM researching
the relational model, by the way) as well as at the end of the history
seemed significant enough to point out.

In addition to Honeywell for Ultimate there was the DEC (VAX)
Ultimate, which I believe was a firmware implementation - and
significant in its own right for that.

The three companies currently involved with the jBASE DBMS are jBASE
International, Temenos, and mPower1. This is as of 2002 when Mpower1
acquired rights for support and distribution. Ref:
http://www.jbase.com/about/ and elsewhere. "jBASE" is listed as
"Maintains an MV System in application". Technically that's not
accurate as jBASE does not have an application but Temenos does.

Yes, that happened after I published this version, so I will work on
straightening that out. I can only include so much info, so I don't
know if jbase.com is even relevant in this diagram. I should perhaps
take that question to the jbase list.

I
can't suggest exactly how this should all be displayed but as it is
it's not 100% accurate.

ADP is mentioned in the Reality branch. From recent CDP discussions
and e-mail exchanges, I see they are still a player in the auto
dealership vertical market. I don't know if they just lock-down stock
DBMS releases or if they are still categorized as a licensee.

I thought they were maintaining it themselves, but maybe someone else
knows more about this. I did not get a contact for that implementation
to interview for this diagram and it would be good to have one.

If they
are a licensee, this could make them one of the longest running
licensee/resellers out there.

Anyway you look at it, they are one of the longest running MultiValue
implementations, I would think. Datatel, my former employer, was
started in 1968 (making it one of the oldest existing application
software companies, I suspect) and is another long running MV VAR. I
don't know when they started with it, but they went from Microdata IIRC
to Prime Information to UniData.

Noting the MultiValue logo, it's a shame that SMA isn't recognized
somewhere in the mix as having an impact on some of the cross-platform
standards that we still enjoy today.

Good point. I tried to come up with a way to recognize them since they
didn't fit the other categories and decided that using the logo was a
way to do that. I could put a URL to their site or the explanation of
the logo on the next version. I'll check with Gus.

Might be Pick-ayune, but I doubt whether the distinction between
Advanced Pick and AP Pro is worthy of mention.

That is helpful to know. I took info from many people and sources. I
never worked on the PICK side of the house, so I appreciate that type
of input.

AP Protected mode was
just one step off from AP Native, which isn't mentioned there, and I
don't think Native is worthy either considering Pick was originally a
native platform in the first place. If AP PRO is in there then so
should be AP DOS (EOL 5.2.5) and AP Native (EOL 5.2.7). If not, and
this is my preference, I'd suggest scratching AP PRO and just leaving
Adv Pick.

That is what I'll do.

Also under "ports", was Data General really a licensee or were MV
products merely ported over DG/UX?

I had that one on-again, off-again when I was developing it. My
criteria for inclusion on that list was not really tight. My interest
is less on licensing than on whether there was an implementation of the
languages that was separate from other implementations (a "port" to
that platform). But my notes are not clear enough for me to figure out
who gave me DG information so I could ask some follow-up questions.
Hopefully others will know. I think there are other items in this list
that might stand out as being of a different ilk too and would like to
identify those.

Finally, we often hear Jim Idle say "jBASE is not Pick", and I know
that confuses people. We see in the tree that MDIS had impact on JAC
where jBASE was written, and the license was subsequently transferred
to jBASE International. But to understand that history I found a neat
article which explains that process _and_ really explains well how and
why jBASE was developed. This provides some compelling insight into
jBASE, and may help to explain why jBASE may be better positioned than
some other MV platforms for the open market. Ref:
http://www.ukpua.org/archives/articles/JAC.html

Yes, I believe that was one of my sources, although I did talk to Jim
too at some point, if I recall correctly.

Regards,
T

Thanks a bunch. --dawn

Hi
In Australia the Microdata REALITY was marketed by AWA and became the ROYALE
around 1978, the scuttlebut had it that the name change was because of a
royalty agreement arising from one of Dick's famous copyright stoushes.

In 1988 there was an Advanced Pick release on a piece of junk called EDGE.
I was the first and probably the last poor soul to use this. It was
launched with a stupendously expensive Superman fanfare. I was forced into
it instead of the established machines I preferred by the "experts" from a
big six accounting firm. How good was it? Suffice to say the response to a
tape read error was a hex core dump to printer and immediate halt on a 120
user system! Fantastic!

Keep up the good work Dawn
Peter McMurray>

#14

Hey Peter,

I remember seeing your EDGE - 'redefining the desktop' is a term that
springs to mind :-)

#15

Tony Gravagno wrote:
<snip>

Quote:

I understand the focus and complexity of what's already there, but
it's sort of a shame to not see some of the milestones. Like:
- When did Dick first discuss porting Pick to IBM - and then decide he
didn't want to?
- Who had the first MV/Unix port?
- I believe AP was the first commercial database (MV or otherwise)
ported to Linux. Can someone contest that?

Just going on... Thanks again.
T

I almost ready to shut the lid on this laptop and pack it up for a trip
back home for Thanksgiving (eager to see the kids, parents, and
everyone else), but a quick response on this.

I have a spreadsheet with a history of "stories" with some known dates
and other estimates. This is the research from which I developed the
poster, so there are plenty of stories and milestones that were out of
scope completely. I'm planning to get this on the web so that people
can submit stories and milestones for inclusion. I would like
something that permits people to add their names as "verifying" the
data. That way stories without multiple sources can still go out
there, but we can know they are not verified by anyone else. So, stay
tuned for that.

Happy Thanksgiving to the US folks and for those outside the US, feel
free to overeat while counting your blessings with the rest of us.
Cheers! --dawn

#16

Sounds like a WIKI rather than a spreadsheet in your future for the
stories Dawn

#17

Hi Ross
I would have thought boat anchor would have been a better description. It
filled my long wheel base LandRover and took several removalists to shift
out of my office.
Of course it also caused some extremely "interesting" moves in the marketing
area from a certain Lionel Singer and Pyramid. In relation to Dawn's
request there are a couple of names for her history
Lionel Singer - Prime + Primos - Pyramid - Universe (I think).
A gentleman accountant from Canberra with many talents. I believe his first
foray into the IT field was with Wang.
He certainly made a big impression for a little guy.

"Ross Ferris" <rossf (AT) stamina (DOT) com.au> wrote

Quote:

Hey Peter,

I remember seeing your EDGE - 'redefining the desktop' is a term that
springs to mind :-)

#18

Excalibur wrote:

Quote:

Hi Ross
I would have thought boat anchor would have been a better description. It
filled my long wheel base LandRover and took several removalists to shift
out of my office.
Of course it also caused some extremely "interesting" moves in the marketing
area from a certain Lionel Singer and Pyramid. In relation to Dawn's
request there are a couple of names for her history
Lionel Singer - Prime + Primos - Pyramid - Universe (I think).
A gentleman accountant from Canberra with many talents. I believe his first
foray into the IT field was with Wang.
He certainly made a big impression for a little guy.

"Ross Ferris" <rossf (AT) stamina (DOT) com.au> wrote in message
news:1132620278.793167.226180 (AT) o13g2000cwo (DOT) googlegroups.com...
Hey Peter,

I remember seeing your EDGE - 'redefining the desktop' is a term that
springs to mind :-)

#19

Quite an impression.
At Tina Turner show in the Sydney Hilton in 1984, ten or so of us sat
down and the first thing Lionel did was take off his shoe and put it on
the table; it had a phone in it.

Excalibur wrote:

Quote:

Hi Ross
I would have thought boat anchor would have been a better description. It
filled my long wheel base LandRover and took several removalists to shift
out of my office.
Of course it also caused some extremely "interesting" moves in the marketing
area from a certain Lionel Singer and Pyramid. In relation to Dawn's
request there are a couple of names for her history
Lionel Singer - Prime + Primos - Pyramid - Universe (I think).
A gentleman accountant from Canberra with many talents. I believe his first
foray into the IT field was with Wang.
He certainly made a big impression for a little guy.

"Ross Ferris" <rossf (AT) stamina (DOT) com.au> wrote in message
news:1132620278.793167.226180 (AT) o13g2000cwo (DOT) googlegroups.com...
Hey Peter,

I remember seeing your EDGE - 'redefining the desktop' is a term that
springs to mind :-)

#20

On 22 Nov 2005 17:22:34 -0800, "Proco_Mark" <mark (AT) proman (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

Quite an impression.
At Tina Turner show in the Sydney Hilton in 1984, ten or so of us sat
down and the first thing Lionel did was take off his shoe and put it on
the table; it had a phone in it.

But, the best thing - besides Tina's legs - was the doorman wouldn't
let Molly Meldrum in.... "Private function" ... "Um...Um...Um ..Um"

Quote:

Excalibur wrote:
Hi Ross
I would have thought boat anchor would have been a better description. It
filled my long wheel base LandRover and took several removalists to shift
out of my office.
Of course it also caused some extremely "interesting" moves in the marketing
area from a certain Lionel Singer and Pyramid. In relation to Dawn's
request there are a couple of names for her history
Lionel Singer - Prime + Primos - Pyramid - Universe (I think).
A gentleman accountant from Canberra with many talents. I believe his first
foray into the IT field was with Wang.
He certainly made a big impression for a little guy.

"Ross Ferris" <rossf (AT) stamina (DOT) com.au> wrote in message
news:1132620278.793167.226180 (AT) o13g2000cwo (DOT) googlegroups.com...
Hey Peter,

I remember seeing your EDGE - 'redefining the desktop' is a term that
springs to mind :-)

Regards,

Bruce Nichol
Talon Computer Services
ALBURY NSW Australia

http://www.taloncs.com.au

If it ain't broke, fix it until it is....