Hello, all.

I would like to know whether the methods of the AP/D3 Update Processor,
displaying a data entry screen, stepping along the index and so forth,
"double clutching" and all the rest of it, are patented.

I am thinking about an attempt to hack some modest prototype of
something similar for PostgreSQL.

If there are patents restricting peoples' rights to emulate the UP, or
some part of its functionality, I'd like to know details: numbers,
expiry dates and so forth.

I've done a search of the Web but so far found nothing.

Regards,
Michael Talbot-Wilson

I think you may have just shot yourself in the foot !?! as I believe
that apart from any patents that may or may not exist, D3 has a great
big copyright notice attached to it, and you also should look at that
licence agreement "thingy" you (or someone who has given you access to
a D3 system & manual) have signed.

I would suggest that you could contact TData, or Raining Data directly,
and they could probably advise (FWIW, in your discussion with same, you
might want to ask about technologies enabling your PostgreSQL tables to
be seen a D3 files)
Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:

I think you may have just shot yourself in the foot !?! as I believe
that apart from any patents that may or may not exist, D3 has a great
big copyright notice attached to it, and you also should look at that
licence agreement "thingy" you (or someone who has given you access to
a D3 system & manual) have signed.

I would suggest that you could contact TData, or Raining Data directly,
and they could probably advise (FWIW, in your discussion with same, you
might want to ask about technologies enabling your PostgreSQL tables to
be seen a D3 files)
Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:

Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:
If you are freed from the contraints of using Pick, and really can use
PostgreSQL then there are many open source products already available
that may do more than the Update Processor. For example:
http://www.glom.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:
Hey, knock yourself out. You'll never get anybody to use that crap
anyway, so have fun. <g>

Seriously, UP is probably the worst possible model. Use Open Office's
database tool instead, or look around on SourceForge. There has to be
something better than UP.

Luke

On 2006-07-10, Ross Ferris <rossf (AT) stamina (DOT) com.au> wrote:
I don't quite understand. I was once employed where they had D3. I
don't think I signed anything and if I did it would not have been in
my own right. Well, I probably did sign something, but, to repeat, I
don't think it would have been in my private and independent capacity.
My then employer would be bound, but I think I would not. If anyone
can credibly contradict that and explain how it affects the
contemplated project I will take the advice seriously.

I have no intention of copying any software implementation so I don't
think copyright applies. I don't have D3 here and don't remember the
big copyright notice but I think it would be irrelevant. I also have
no memory of the licence agreement thingy. It's been a while.

Incidentally, the top brass there hated the Update Processor. They
brought in "Pick" consultants who spent several years and several
fortunes writing Visual Basic which could use D3 as a "repository"
(which as I understand it is something that you can keep away from,
never see, and avoid the unique advantages of) in order to clear the
way for its eventual replacement by Oracle. I recently heard from an
insider that such a replacement, indeed with Oracle, is now under way
at huge cost. The advantage, I suppose, is easy DBA hires because SQL
is widely known but this weird, eccentric thing, Pick, is totally
unknown.

A year or so ago I inquired about buying - okay, licensing - D3/Linux.
Apart from I think two negatives (as I saw them) which were not really
totally unreasonable there was a mandatory and substantial fee for
support for (I think) a year, irrespective of whether or not I thought
I needed it, on top of the cost of the D3 licence. This gave me a
negative feeling, a very bad one, and after a few months of indecision
I went totally with PostgreSQL. It was a struggle at first, but now
I'm very pleased with the result. However I don't want to proselytize
for PostgreSQL on this list and will say no more about it.

I would need to contact Raining Data directly, but I think it's a
little late for that. I don't have D3, I have a database based on
PostgreSQL. There is actually a reason not to contact RD, or at
least, not to lay eyes on D3 and the licence agreement thingy
(whatever that means) again.

Your last sentence above was attacked by a gremlin. I don't
understand it. Would you care to repeat it? And explain a bit
further?

I assume that an inquiry on this list will reach all relevant patent
holders. If I don't see some authoritative statement here on the
subject I will assume that there are no restrictions.

Or write to me at GPO Box 618, Adelaide, South Australia. With the
requested specifics.

Regards,
Michael Talbot-Wilson

Micahel,

If you are indeed serious about patent concerns, I would suggest you do
a patent search, or hire a patent lawyer. I believe the statement

could fell well short of the mark.

The last sentence is probably moot (thanks Mike!) if you don't have D3
in place. Many of the mv Databases provide gateways that can be used to
access information in 3rd party databases



Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:

I've got a page-long explanation of why I think what you want to do is
not a problem but the most compelling reason is simple: There are many
efforts which have been made in the past and on-going now to emulate
specific functionality in D3. None of the MV vendors get bent about
this. What you're talking about isn't even competitive. Go for it.
You have a lot of precedent to support your effort.

Personally I like the update processor and have it integrated with my
keyboard navigation, but I'm in a small minority. I'd discourage your
effort simply because I don't think even PostgreSQL users will like
it, so this has to be more of a labor of love than a useful
contribution to OSS.

Good luck.
Tony

Michael Talbot-Wilson wrote:

Me too Tony. I forced myself to learn the update processor when AP first
came out. Now it is so second nature that I find myself trying to use
control characters in Word and Notepad. Jim uses it too, although he is
starting to use WED more. Maybe we are the only 3 left.

Jeff


"Tony Gravagno" <g6q3x9lu53001 (AT) sneakemail (DOT) com.invalid> wrote

Nope, I think you will find a LOT more people than that use UP - though
they may not admit to it. AT the other end of the scale know of
developers that steadfastly REFUSE to use anything other than ED !



Jeffrey Kaufman wrote: