I had a good time in the Seattle area with folks there, including a
couple of folks who filled me in on some history. One person who
worked for Devcom before Prime bought Information from them, said that
he saw some of his code in UniVerse some years later. He said he never
found out how code passed from PI to UniVerse. I've tried to record as
accurately as I could determine when there were clean room versions of
software and when source code moved from one place to another, but
there are many muddy areas and I'm sure some downright theft too.

Does any one have any clues or guesses on how some PI source code ended
up in UniVerse? Even if you have no reason to believe someone did
something amiss, do you know names of anyone who moved from Prime to
VMark in the early days of UniVerse development? If anyone would like
to pass along stories or names off-list, send me an e-mail. (There are
plenty who moved to VMark after Prime's demise).

Thanks. --dawn dwolt at tinct-group dot com

Excalibur wrote:
I didn't see a response in this, but I did seen thatI missed the 'a' in
cat. It is tincat-group. --dawn

Excalibur wrote:
I don't know if I caught my previous response before it posted or not
(too many typos), but I see that I missed the 'a' in cat. It is
tincat-group.

Did you have a response, Excalibur?
Cheers! --dawn

"dawn" <dawnwolthuis (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Hi Dawn
You are stirring again. The story I heard is that a couple of guys from the
states came to work at Prime in Australia. When they left Universe was born
and they had such fantastically good memories that they even remembered the
exact error messages for some events. Obviously a subliminal response. the
original message was so blindingly brilliant it could not be bettered!
I also heard that Dick chased these same guys for lots and lots of money and
won.
Peter McMurray
"dawn" <dawnwolthuis (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Excalibur wrote:
Who, moi?

Ah, but Dick never won against Prime, as far as I know (did he?), so I
don't think that is the reason he won in the suit against UniVerse. I
believe that was due to the Alfa influence in the product. While they
have insisted it is not the case, apparently someone saw one of the
Alfa guys (from whom VMark got some of UniVerse, perhaps all at the
start?) was seen taking a backup tape of one of the R83-compatibles out
there. So, I think he won for the aspect of UniVerse that came from
Pick, not from PI.

But I only have bits and pieces of the story so more clues are welcome.
When you are talking about the Prime Australia guys, are those the
ones who started Alfa and wrote UPIX? --dawn

Hi Dawn
Sorry about the blank response it was called by double click when single
click required. May I strangle the person that muddled that up?

My knowledge of Prime is limited to Lionel Singer's influence. ALFA! I
thought that was a flashy Italian car (by the way our round ball boys are
due to beat Italy on Tuesday). UPIX sorry that is another that is through
to the keeper we need local historians to fill in the gaps.

Dick not getting paid by Prime surprises me but Lionel was a crafty little
devil you always counted your fingers after shaking hands.

Peter McMurray
"dawn" <dawnwolthuis (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Peter McMurray wrote:
Maybe I should just ask who were some of the first employees of VMark
as I don't know many details related to the start of that company.
Where does Singer fit in -- did he start VMark? Is he still living (I
once knew the answer to that but don't recall). Who was the first
President of the company? Did anyone come from Prime to VMark in the
early days?

Yes, Alfa was named after the car. I just saw one on the road a couple
of days ago.

I don't think Dick got paid by Prime, but I don't know, so if anyone
does, clue me in. I would think that Reality would have had more reason
to try to sue.

Cheers! --dawn

Hi Dawn
Lionel Singer is no longer with us. He was a Canberra accountant with a
large number of Toyota dealerships as clients who recognised that computers
could make a lot of money for him. In the early seventies he first set out
buying a large number of Wangs with the intention that he would sell the
dealer a machine and software, the dealer would do all the work, and at the
end of the year he would clean up again by doing the tax return off his own
software. Very far thinking. Unfortunately it is a bit difficult to fit
all that onto a 10 megabyte hard disk. Luckily there seems to have been a
warehouse fire and Lionel had to find another machine.
He was very much involved with the setup of a couple of multivalue based
companies. Prime was one and certainly a lot of the development was done in
Australia. I believe that Wicat and Pyramid also had a lot of Lionel
influence behind them.
Peter McMurray
"dawn" <dawnwolthuis (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Excalibur wrote:
Ah, yes, now I recall some of the Lionel information. So, I'm still
short on knowing who started VMark. I know that they go their original
product from the two Alfa guys, one of whom said he would chat with me
in January, but then I never got another response from him when trying
to set a time, so I'll have to try again.

Any and all clues are welcome. Thanks. --dawn