I am new to my company, there are using RPL developed by a company call
Real Time which is different than HP RPL. I think. I was told that this
RPL is running on PICK system. Does anybody use this language? What
material you use? Where can I find some good books for learning?

Thank you so much for help!

Rachel

Rachel, Realtime Software is one of my clients. They support RPL (the
Realtime Programming Language) running over the D3 DBMS (one of the
versions of Pick). They have many clients and I'm sure they'd be
happy to help you and your company with your software. If sounds to
me like you need a lot of information about your entire environment.

You can contact Realtime at:
support@ REMOVETHISrealtimesw.com
(remove that REMOVETHIS text which is used against spam)

I highly suggest that you work through your management (if you're not
working alone) to contact Realtime and discuss your needs. Your
company might already have a main contact, manuals, etc. Yes, there
are lots of manuals for RPL and your business software.

You can also contact me if you have other questions or cannot contact
Realtime. I assist Realtime (and other companies) with "mainstream"
technologies like web development, Web Services, communications,
integration with other databases, and data exchanges with products
like Excel, Outlook, WebMethods, and others.

Good luck.

Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ removethisNebula-RnD.com
(Do not send mail to the .invalid address used to post this note.)

rachelshen26 (AT) REMOVETHISyahoo (DOT) com wrote:

Hi Tony,

Thank you so much for your message! I just feel bad that no one answer
me. Yes, we have a menu for RPL, but it is so simple and without any
example. I tried to contact to Real Time before and they called back to
my manager. Do you know how many company still using RPL? I think I
don't have future if I stay here Do you know anywhere that I can buy
a good book for RPL?

Thanks again! Talk to you later!

Rachel

rachelshen26 (AT) removethisyahoo (DOT) com wrote:
Contacting your manager was the appropriate business response from
Realtime. They have no idea who you are or what you're authorized to
work on. Product documentation, especially for the programming
language, can be used to open doors for authorized employees and to
malicious people who are not authorized. I did suggest in my first
note that you take this through your management and now I'm wondering
why you don't want to work through your own management on this -
Realtime _did_ contact them right? What did your management and
Realtime discuss? What did your management say to you about that
discussion?

You can't go buy a buy a book on RPL but your management can give you
documentation that they obtain from Realtime - or your management can
call Realtime and authorize you to contact Support directly for
information.

Respectfully, it doesn't sound to me like you have enough information
about your Pick system (D3) to get in and start working with code. I
think you need to take a step back and get more familiar with the
environment before you start programming into it. Making code changes
to your application could void your maintenance agreement - if you
have one. Making changes to the business software without
understanding the environment could be catastrophic to the business.
You aren't going to learn D3, RPL, and your application internals from
"a book", it takes months to understand how software works before
you're qualified to make changes. It could be your management is
concerned about these issues. Again, I really suggest you take this
up with them.

If you don't have a software support agreement and/or your management
does not want to talk to Realtime, and you are authorized to discuss
such matters, then send me an e-mail and I'll see if I can help to get
you some assistance. I won't give you any documentation without
approval from your management either, but I can give you information
on Pick education and we can discuss your next course of action.
Please be sure to tell me:
- your company name
- your specific Pick system (might not be D3)
- your country/state/city

I hope that helps.
Tony Gravagno, Nebula R&D
TG@ remove!!!thisNebula-RnD.com

Tony,

I understand that you should contact my manager first, but the problem
is we already got all menus they have, no more. I think that's not
enough. They are talking about that we can get training from them by
flying to Chicago. It is expensive for both time and money. So I try to
find a book that I can study by myself.
One thing you mentioned is right that I am not so familiar with the
PICK environment yet, so I have to red the D3 menu again.

What do you think that training from they site? Going to be very
useful?

Have a good weekend!

Rachel

Tony Gravagno wrote:

Here is a story about myself that may help Rachel put things in proper
perspective.

I came up through the data processing "ranks" using IBM equipment. I
learned well RPG, RPG-II, COBOL, and FORTRAN. I was expert with
Hexadecimal, SAM and ISAM Fixed-length-record files and all the other
"old technology" stuff.

When I was first introduced to "Pick Reality" at McDonnell Douglas
Computer Systems Company (MDCSC), the concepts of "Pick" greatly
confused me. It took me at least six months to discard my old thinking.
Hardly anything I knew well applied to the concepts of "Pick".

Even then, I found that learning "Pick" PQN procedures and the Basic
Language was going to take some time until I felt completely
comfortable in that environment.

It can be done! But it takes some amount of time (months) to become
somewhat knowledgeable in "Pick" and even longer (years) to become an
expert. I have been very successful "doing Pick", having started my own
business in 1988 when MDCSC shut down operations in the USA.

Knowing what little I can glean from the discussions in this thread, if
I were Rachel's manager I would insist that Rachel not touch the code
without first getting some professional (not just out of the books)
"Pick" training. And improving spelling, grammar and writing skills
appear to be needed as well. (I'll probably regret that previous
sentence just as soon as I hit the button. But, at the time I felt it
needed to be said.)

My 2-cents worth.
Dave Weaver

rachel wrote:

Just to be clear, "I" am not involved, so you probably mean Realtime
should contact your manager first.


Menus? Oh! Manuals????

Your manuals from Realtime are about your financial, distribution,
and/or manufacturing software (or whatever you have installed).

For D3, go here:
<http://www.rainingdata.com/support/documentation/d3server2.html>
Download the "D3 Reference Manual" and "Using D3". Unfortunately
these are reference manuals for people to reference if they already
know the system - it is not a tutorial for beginners.

Realtime does not distribute programming manuals because they (like
almost all software providers here) don't want their customers poking
around in the code without some understanding of what they're doing.


I asked where you are. Please tell us because someone in this forum
may be offering training in your own city. You should go to Realtime
for RPL training but many companies and individuals around the world
offer D3 training.

If your company wants someone to maintain your software (other than
your vendor), they should find someone who has current qualifications
to do so. Please don't take that personally. I don't know what your
background is and I trust that given time you should be able to write
code, but let's agree that at the moment you don't have the required
skills to do what you're asking. If your company wants you to work
with the code then they should send you to some classes. If they
don't want to pay for training then they shouldn't ask you to get
involved in this.

Let's back up for a minute. You're now working in a market where
there is very little current documentation. I'm very sorry about that
and many of us in this forum frequently complain about the lack of
documentation. The problem is that no one wants to buy Pick books
anymore, so it's not worth it for anyone to write a Pick book - no
demand, no supply. In the mean time, people like you get caught in
the middle with no documentation. It's a tough situation but this is
what we need to work with now.

Pick is easy to learn but you will have a hard time learning it all by
yourself. There are many web sites and older books and I think
someone here can post a single link to a large list of resources. (?)
I highly suggest you get professional training, spend a few months
learning the system, then start learning how your business software
works, then start looking at the code. This is going to take time and
probably money.


OK, here is that "menu" word again, and this is another problem. Your
command of the english language needs a lot of work. If you don't
know the difference between a "menu" and a "manual" then (sorry again)
I don't think you (yet) have the skills to be making changes to your
company's business software.


Realtime has great software, I enjoy working with them, and we have
great plans for the future to add new web interfaces and other
enhancements. Unfortunately I don't think they're in a good position
now to offer training. I recommend you get a professional training
company to get D3 education, and once you are comfortable with D3 then
you can check with Realtime for RPL education. They will probably
organize a special class for many of their clients.

Aside from all of this I'm still concerned that you are planning to
make changes to your business application software. You can't just go
in and make changes without understanding how the various programs and
data files integrate. Does one learn to drive a car by reading the
owner's manual in the glove compartment? Do we learn how to fly a
plane by taking a trip or even reading a book? It takes time to
develop technical and business skills to make the right changes in the
right places.

I'm also guessing that your company is not paying for a software
support agreement with Realtime. If you were, Realtime could easily
make all changes for you. They also assist many of their clients who
want to make their own custom mods, but ensure that changes are not
made which will interfere with future upgrades.

As we're having this conversation it's apparent that there's a lot
you're not telling us and a lot that you yourself don't know about the
situation. I really think your management should be more involved. I
don't expect you to tell your life story in a public forum, that's why
I invited you to send me an e-mail. The invitation is still open.

You too. Thanks.
Tony
TG@ the domain starts with the word Nebula hereNEBULA-RND .com
(Publishing your unprotected e-mail address invites spam...)

"Dave Weaver" <weaver22 (AT) pacbell (DOT) net> wrote

I have to agree with Dave and I know he doesn't mean anything derogatory or
insulting towards Rachel. It's just that any lack in these skills only
multiplies the difficulty Rachel faces. It seems to me, though, that
Rachel's challenge with spelling, grammar and writing could be due to
English being a second language for her. I don't know that for a fact, but
the results are going to be the same. What little documentation we have in
our little corner of the IT world is written predominantly in English, so
command of that language would shorten Rachel's learning curve.

Just my own devalued 2¢

-Bruce

Well, Tony and Bruce, it looks like Rachel has deleted her posts from
this thread!
Now, maybe she will never be back. That's sad, because over time we may
have been able to help her somewhat.
Rachel -- if you are still watching this thread, try this URL:
<http://www.jes.com/pb>. That may indeed be the manual you were looking
for.

Dave Weaver, Weaver Consulting

WHOOPS! Rachel was looking for RPL documentation manuals.

So Tony, Bruce or anyone else --- just what is RPL?

Is it like the old McDonnell Douglas REALITY PQN Procedure language?
I have several MDC PQN manuals here in the office that I have not
looked at for several years.

In my McDonnell Douglas Reality days, I wrote a lot of PQN procedures,
but never referred to it as "RPL".

I can't imagine writing entire applications in PQN Procedures. In fact,
these days I even avoid using PQ Procedures because Pick/Basic is so
easy to use.

Dave Weaver, Weaver Consulting