Yes, I know there have been discussions on the Pentium-enabled version
of R83 (3.1M?) before, but that was years ago and my requirement is
NOW!

I passed the age of 60 in AUgust 2000, and when the IT industry finally
twigged this over a year later they promptly decided I must be past it!

For the past three years I've been selling furniture, and to keep my
hand in I gave the shop an old 486 I had knocking around, and built
them a Stock & Administration system on it using Pick R83 rel 3.1 and
System Builder rel 3.1.

I'm retiring in August 2005 and would like to upgrade the shop to a
much newer Pentium-based machine I also now have knocking around. But
the R83 and SB 5.1 diskettes I have will not load and run on a Pentium
machine.

Hence I need a set of Rel 3.1M diskettes and a set of System Builder
5.1 (or an account save) which will run on a Pentium - and I need them
in the next couple of months!

Can anyone help, please? Contact me by e-mail or mail to Brian Heath, 2
Bay CLose, Rookery Park, CALNE, Wiltshire SN11 0LL, UK - I will gladly
refund any shipping/postage costs incurred.

Look forward to responses!

Brian Heath

Brian,
The thing you will probably need is an AP version of SB5.1 [if that exists].
As you did the development, I assume you have access to your source and SB
definitions?

Moving to d3/NT [which is AP compatible] should allow you to get your app
working with minimal intervention. I say this because our app started on
AP/Pro and has moved over the years all the way to d3/NT using the SAME
object code release of SB+ (I know, that's not SB; but the point is object
code compatability) without the need for any recompiles of source.

So, the bit you are "missing" is SB for AP. If you got that, you would be
creating something that would run for a lot longer than staying on ANY
version of R83.

HTH

David

"Brian Heath" <bh (AT) bheathhome (DOT) freeserve.co.uk> wrote

If you are retiring and no longer doing any IT work then I believe it
would be a dis-service to your site to leave them with an R83 or AP
system running an old release of SB/SB+. Especially since SB+ will no
longer be supported over D3, even getting a current release of SB+ is
not adequate unless you migrate the app to another platform - and I'm
sure that's not how you'd like to spend the next few months.

I highly recommend upgrading to D3 and then using the new Osmosis
software to allow the site to continue running the SB-based
application in D3. The users will be much better off on a currently
supported system where they can get someone else to help them continue
to function when required. Leaving them stranded with an old platform
is a recipe for disaster.

Please feel free to contact me for details.
Tony
TG@ removethisNebula-RnD
..com

"Brian Heath" <bh (AT) bheathhome (DOT) freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

Hello Brian

I agree with Tony, you should not leave them on such an old platform.
Do they have any IT in-house, or has it always been done by yourself

I am a UK based VAR and would therefore be in a better position (ie
geographically) to help you with any migration issues.

My company does "offer" full Stock Control / SOP / POP / MRP
application that has been around some 19 years and is very stable. This
is not based on any SB+ type platform so only D3 would be the issue.

I'm not trying to sell my application to your site in this post, but
simply offering

(a) expertise / assistance in all D3 migrations. If you call Raining
Data (UK) they will concur.

(b) offering a different option of moving away from SB+ altogther, and
possibly giving your site a long term support facility.

If you need to discuss further, then email me off-line

Regards


John
john (AT) mrpsystems (DOT) co.uk

Thanks Tony - to you and all the other respondents.

Although I'm retiring, I've already offered to provide on-call
consultancy and maintenance on 'my' system for as long as I can, which
I hope will be for a number of years yet!

The issue, frankly, is money. The shop I work in is a small independent
retailer, and for our directors even the cost of purchasing a new
printer ribbon for the old dot matrix is a big issue! Your
recommendations are fine and sensible, but I fear the directors would
prefer to do without my system altogether than spend any money on new
hardware or software to run it on!

As I said originally, I can provide a Pentium machine myself, which I
know the directors would gratefully accept, and the application is
complete and documented; I could even find an old AP Native release, I
guess, and probably the System Builder account-save would work on that
with a tweek or two if I can get it to load, but ideally I would like
to leave them exactly where they are, but on a more modern PC - which
means finding the Rel3.1M and SB diskettes I asked for in the first
place!

I know I'm asking for old platforms which aren't supported any more,
but I can provide myself whatever support might be required on the
software side, and if I can leave them with a system which can be
migrated to another Pentium as and when necessary I will have achieved
my goal.

Can anyone help?

Brian

Brian,
Sorry to burst your bubble, but to go from R83 to AP-anything-or-higher
requires a recompile. Therefore your R83 SB account-save will not work. Data
is fine, it is the executables that will give you grief.

I commend your sentiment and enthusiasm to help these guys; but I think you
are out of options [unless someone springs for R83 v3.1M disks on 3.5" FDD].
Everything else should save/restore quite nicely. No matter what, this is a
short-term patch: once the Pentium dies [& it will] then if the directors
react as you say, the app will die also. Unfortunately it sounds to me that
their business may also die with it. Everyone loses.

Shame.

Good luck.

David

"Brian Heath" <bh (AT) bheathhome (DOT) freeserve.co.uk> wrote

As can be expected, I agree with David on this. Brian, given your own
perspective and the commentary you've received here, at this point
isn't it reasonable to present the options the the directors, and let
_them_ decide how they want to approach it? Assuming they could do
without the system entirely, I'm sure anyone would much prefer to
schedule a withdrawal from the system in a controlled manner, rather
than having it pulled from them on some random day when it simply
fails. Ask them. What do you have to lose? You're out of there
anyway.

"I fear the directors would prefer to do without my system altogether
than spend any money..." I think that's a little too simplistic, even
for cheap MV users. No one cares about A/P but don't they have a
customer list on-line for A/R? Inventory counts? Open Orders? Don't
they pay taxes based on net income? If nothing else, if indeed they
don't care about the software, they may need an exit strategy for
recovering their data from backup tapes, should that system go away.
(They do get regular backups, don't they?) If the system dies and
they want their data, how much might it cost to pay someone to recover
it for them? Don't know? Probably more than the cost of upgrading
their current environment... Doing something will cost money - doing
nothing may cost more.

HTH
Tony
"We all die, some of us are lucky enough to choose where and when."
-- unknown

"David Knight" <davidk (AT) matash (DOT) com.au> wrote:

Brian,

You and I know that "Retail" is a funny game. The "retail mentality"
that you allude to is one of the reasons we de-emphasised our retail
fashion product many years ago - 'cause retailers are "tight", and
won't spend a dollar, right ?!?!

You know, sometimes you CAN be surprised, because AFTER we left the
retail segment alone, I was amazed at the number of companies that
bemoaned buying printer ribbons (sound familiar), and then went out and
spent >$100K on a new retail system, with top of the line PC's on every
desk (even the manager, who still doesn't turn it on!)

Your directors may suprise you ! They are business people - make a
business case, and they may listen. DON'T make a case, DON'T alert them
to their vulnerability, DON'T give them options, and you may walk into
the office one day to discover that your ol' faithful R83 HAS been
replaced.

For our part, we kept a core of retail users, and our biggest is now
one of the largest ladies fashion chains in Australia (I first became
involved with them when they had 2 stores in Newcastle) ... AND we are
re-working our Retail strategy as there are big bucks around these
days, and more complex problems to solve that people see value in
having solved !

Interesting co-incidence here that highlights this topic...

This arvo I bumped into an old client of mine [one of the better ones, mind
you] from a company we sold 4 years ago. He was [& is] thankful for the help
we gave his business. The app was not a mv one; but that's not the point.

The point is, we gave great service to a retail outlet, providing an app
that ran his business very well. We were dumb & let them dictate h/w
purchases because "that's what the market wanted". But, 4 years later, some
whizz-bang application endorsed by their major wholesaler has come along.
You HAVE to buy their hardware; and the app itself costs $AUS70k!

This guys ENTIRE spend with us would have been <$20k over the years [& he
was a GOOD client], and maybe another $20k on h/w to some other bloke. Yet
he is seriously considering getting this new app. Why? Because there is a
BUSINESS case for it!

I told him that we had been waaayyy to good to him; and he agreed! We
undersold ourselves.

Such is life.....

David

"Ross Ferris" <rossf (AT) stamina (DOT) com.au> wrote

Brian Heath wrote:
[...]
I take it its not simply a matter of wrong type of floppy drive?
I've kept 4 old 5.25" drives so I could load my R83 onto newer PCs with
a 3.5 floppy.

R83 will only look at the first 1MB of memory so a lot of memory will
go to waste with any Pentium box. IMHO anything more than a 486 would
be overkill, with only 1MB of memory the speed of the disks will be
much more important than the processor. Speeds up the compiles I
suppose.

Jeremy Thomson