I recall that Will and others were asking about Pick shops. I'm hoping
that others will be willing to pipe up if I start with just a couple I
know.

-- Datatel is a VAR. They have Oracle and SQL implementations too, all
of which include UniData in the mix (although that might change, it
will then be their own Pick-like middleware). They have many customers
in higher ed. I can point people to links for these if they ask me off-
list (two of them are the college where I currently teach and one
where I was dir of computer services in the 90's).

-- Entrinsik is a 3rd party in U2 and other MV reporting with their
Informer toolset and also a VAR for Semtek software for continuing ed
programs.

-- Trimdata is a 3rd party with software for Datatel customers for the
interface between college bookstores and financial aid.

The urls for each of these are the obvious ones.

There are definitely more of which I am aware, but this is a start to
see if anyone else is game to play. I know a lot of consulting
companies in the greater MV space (Datatel consultants, for example),
but I'll stick with VARs, customers, and 3rd party software providers
for starters unless someone would like to collect the consulting
groups and individuals too.

Everyone on the list I'm hoping might get some traction here writes
and sells software that can be run on one of the MV databases (VARs
and 3rd parties) or writes/integrates/runs MV software applications in
their company (end-customers).

Anyone else willing to add to this list? If not, I'll drop it, but
thought I would try to revive this question.

--dawn

Here are a few customers (I hope they don't mind):

There are several Serta Mattress plants across the country on UniVerse
and running ERP software from OHM Systems in Cincinnati Kingsdown, Inc
(another bedding manufacturer) in Mebane, NC was running Reality and I
believe they still are. Cottonwood Mill and Cabinet in Draper, Utah is
running UniVerse. Neiman Marcus in Irving, TX is running UniVerse.
Mouser Electronics in Mansfield, TX is also running UniVerse.

As for VARs or 3rd Party Software Developers/Providers:

Rigden, Inc in Boulder, CO.
Paradigm Software (Oil & Gas software) used to be MV based but they
were "absorbed" and I don't know if they still are.
GWIZ Systems (Oils & Gas software) was absorbed as well and I don't
know their status.
OHM Systems (as mentioned above).

I hope this helps (and doesn't get me in trouble!)

-Bruce H


On Oct 22, 10:36*am, dawn <dawnwolth... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

mvdbman wrote:
That's the big kicker with trying to be a good netizen and
broadcasting a who's who of Pick users ... they might mind.
I highly discourage "outting" any company that doesn't openly
advertise their own choice of technologies. It could be perceived as
a security issue.

T

On Oct 22, 11:45*am, Tony Gravagno <nos... (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid> wrote:
I highly encourage outting every company regardless of whether they
wish it
I see no security issue in doing so, but I do recognize that vendors
won't like it.
However end users will love it.

W

On Oct 23, 9:58*am, wjhonson <wjhon... (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote:
We can look at this another way. One of the biggest claims for
companies to leave pick is that they cannot find pick programmers.
Ironically, pick programmers cannot find work as we do not know who
the companies are that use pick.

Eugene

I look at it as free advertising. I really don't believe I will "get
in trouble". My intentions certainly are not malicious!

....but then again.....

*shrugs*

On Oct 22, 1:45*pm, Tony Gravagno <nos... (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid> wrote:

On Oct 24, 3:14*pm, mvdbman <mvdb... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
I would assume not. I suppose it is not out of the question that
someone might be trying to "out" companies in a damaging way, but we
could look at what is publicly knowable and at least collect some of
that information together. I am sure some of the Pick-related
companies have done at least that, and we could make it easier for
others to do so as well, perhaps.

For example, there is a page of Datatel customers on the internet (not
easily found, perhaps) and this page from U2 http://www.rocketsoftware.com/u2/success_stories/
that makes it clear to me that I am not "outing" Datatel by mentioning
them. I have not done research regarding the customers of other MV
vendors, but there might be similar pages out there, so perhaps at
least providing links to some of these from pickwiki or from this
newsgroup might be helpful.

Additionally, any companies that mention any of the MV vendors on
their pages could be mentioned, I would think. Those are difficult to
find, however, due to the names of these database companies being
words like "Revelation" (but there are more than 6000 hits for
openinsigh) and databases being named things like "Universe" (but >
40,000 hits for rocketsoftware u2). Certainly if you know of a company
that does not publicly state their underlying database or would be
horrified or harmed by others knowing their underlying technologies,
then they ought not be mentioned here. Otherwise, I would think it
could be helpful to many folks if we could college more of list than
is currently public. I'm just talking out loud, not starting an actual
project, so if only a few of us participate, so be it, but the more
the merrier, in my opinion. cheers! --dawn

On Oct 24, 7:32*pm, dawn <dawnwolth... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Here's another link I found. Does anyone know anything about the
Valentina database? Is there a Pick or Pick-a-like engine under it?
Should it be on the MV family tree? --dawn

On Oct 24, 8:23*pm, dawn <dawnwolth... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Oops, here is the link

http://www.ltn.net/T/Idioma/English/...atabases/Pick/

wjhonson responded:
Interesting feedback. This notion of "I think it's fine therefore I
encourage others to do it" is very self-serving and short-sighted, and
completely abstracted from what may simply be the right thing to do.
Perhaps it's not unreasonable to suggest that one simply ask a company
if it's OK to publish their technical choices before doing so?
Whether or not You see issues with publication is irrelevant. What's
important is whether They see issues.

(Side note: Society has truly digressed when things like this even
need to be discussed.)

I suggest that anyone under a NDA with an employer or client, past or
current, should re-check the terms of whatever they've signed before
making public announcements. Read the text: "non-disclosure". Get
it? It's there for a reason. I would be happy to find one of my
contractors "outting" one of my clients here, as it would give me an
easy case for a lawsuit which I wouldn't hesitate to pursue. Now
_that's_ something that I think some of my clients would love.

As to why any company might be adverse to having their technology
preferences published:

1) The security concern goes like this: If bad guys don't know what
I'm using it will be much difficult for them to attack my environment.
If they try SQL injection on a webform it will be unsuccessful and
they will probably go away. If they know I have a Pick environment
they can get a freely available manual for a DBMS or related tools and
start attacks through a vulnerable vector.

2) The business concern goes like this: Given that MV is largely
unknown in mainstream circles it could be considered a liability for
some companies to advertise that they're using what may be considered
unknown, obscure, fringe, or old technology. Of course We don't see
it like that but We aren't important in this regard. What's important
to end-users is that their clients and investors (perhaps future
owners) need to see them as rock solid entities, without some
digression into what they're using in their IT department.
Personally, I think it says something if a company is too cheap to
keep their software up to date. You might disagree. Everyone here
knows that MV can be as useful as any mainstream technology. But
people on the outside don't know that and may base their decisions on
it. One way to avoid the problem is simply not to invite the
discussion, and that means keeping the details of your IT
infrastructure private.

3) We've discussed before that MV IT people often prefer to be under
the radar even in their own shops. They make things work on a
reasonable budget without a lot of "why aren't you using SAP or
Oracle" from upper management. Imagine one of these people being
asked to re-evaluate their choices by some manager who learns in a
public medium that his/her company is using 40 year old technology.
Let's skip what that means to us - to anyone else it means "old" and
"liability". Will said "end users will love it" - rethink that one.

The bottom line here is that with the sincerest attempt at doing
something good for all, some of you are just not seeing the big
picture. Yes, we need better marketing for this market, and more
public awareness of our technologies of choice should help everyone in
the long run. But I don't believe this is the right way to pursue
that noble goal. Think it out and try to come at it from another
angle.

Tony Gravagno
Nebula Research and Development
TG@ remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com
remove.pleaseNebula-RnD.com/blog
http://Twitter.com/TonyGravagno