Pick shops, another way to ask

#21

wjhonson wrote:

Quote:

On Oct 26, 7:34*am, Tony Gravagno <nos... (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid> wrote:
wjhonson wrote:
I've discussed several times online that Spectrum (I think that's who
it was) published a book called Pick Hits which listed every vendor
who uses Pick. *And no one choose Tony (none of them) to be left out
of the book. *Not one

That was published by Pick Systems, and it included VARs, not
end-users. *Not one.

Wrong Tony. It was vendors, not VARs. Not every vendor is a VAR

That is not every vendor actually "resells" anything at all.

Anyone who provides business application software over the DBMS has
always been considered by PS/RD/TL as providing Value-Add. Personally
I've had a long-standing contention (in agreement with you I guess)
that people who just resell the DBMS and collect commissions on
support fees are not providing true value. As to what people are
actually selling - anyone in Pick Hits who was selling an application
was also selling the database that went with it. According to the PS
definition, they were VARs.

Quote:

You said we shouldn't out "companies" which use Pick. So are you
retreating to end-users?

I was only talking about end-users in the first place.
The post to which I responded was where Bruce said:
"Here are a few customers (I hope they don't mind)"

Now given my years of history here, doesn't it seem unreasonable that
I would have something against vendors getting some advertising?
Please...

T

#22

"Tony Gravagno" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid> wrote

Quote:

...As to what people are
actually selling - anyone in Pick Hits who was selling an application
was also selling the database that went with it...

Not me. Nor John Brandon, Pete Schellenbach...

--
frosty

#23

"frosty" wrote:

Quote:

"Tony Gravagno" wrote
...As to what people are
actually selling - anyone in Pick Hits who was selling an application
was also selling the database that went with it...

Not me. Nor John Brandon, Pete Schellenbach...

Good grief John, none of you guys were selling were "applications"
like accounting, ERP, medical practice management, etc. You had a
word processing utility and JB and PS had terminal emulators.

Enough already.

#24

Different words mean different things to different people.

What does the word "application" mean to you?

If you're still living in the 80's, perhaps it means
what "enterprise application" means today. In that
case, you're correct: we were selling horizontal
applications.

But I think that anybody would agree that w/p, spreadsheet,
terminal emulators and the like are "applications."

--
frosty

"Tony Gravagno" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid> wrote

Quote:

"frosty" wrote:

"Tony Gravagno" wrote
...As to what people are
actually selling - anyone in Pick Hits who was selling an application
was also selling the database that went with it...

Not me. Nor John Brandon, Pete Schellenbach...

Good grief John, none of you guys were selling were "applications"
like accounting, ERP, medical practice management, etc. You had a
word processing utility and JB and PS had terminal emulators.

Enough already.

#25

On Oct 22, 10:09*am, mvdbman <mvdb... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

Here are a few customers (I hope they don't mind):

There are several Serta Mattress plants across the country on UniVerse
and running ERP software from OHM Systems in Cincinnati Kingsdown, Inc
(another bedding manufacturer) in Mebane, NC was running Reality and I
believe they still are. Cottonwood Mill and Cabinet in Draper, Utah is
running UniVerse. Neiman Marcus in Irving, TX is running UniVerse.
Mouser Electronics in Mansfield, TX is also running UniVerse.

As for VARs or 3rd Party Software Developers/Providers:

Rigden, Inc in Boulder, CO.
Paradigm Software *(Oil & Gas software) used to be MV based but they
were "absorbed" and I don't know if they still are.
GWIZ Systems (Oils & Gas software) was absorbed as well and I don't
know their status.
OHM Systems (as mentioned above).

I hope this helps (and doesn't get me in trouble!)

-Bruce H

On Oct 22, 10:36*am, dawn <dawnwolth... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

I recall that Will and others were asking about Pick shops. I'm hoping
that others will be willing to pipe up if I start with just a couple I
know.

-- Datatel is a VAR. They have Oracle and SQL implementations too, all
of which include UniData in the mix (although that might change, it
will then be their own Pick-like middleware). They have many customers
in higher ed. I can point people to links for these if they ask me off-
list (two of them are the college where I currently teach and one
where I was dir of computer services in the 90's).

-- Entrinsik is a 3rd party in U2 and other MV reporting with their
Informer toolset and also a VAR for Semtek software for continuing ed
programs.

-- Trimdata is a 3rd party with software for Datatel customers for the
interface between college bookstores and financial aid.

The urls for each of these are the obvious ones.

There are definitely more of which I am aware, but this is a start to
see if anyone else is game to play. I know a lot of consulting
companies in the greater MV space (Datatel consultants, for example),
but I'll stick with VARs, customers, and 3rd party software providers
for starters unless someone would like to collect the consulting
groups and individuals too.

Everyone on the list I'm hoping might get some traction here writes
and sells software that can be run on one of the MV databases (VARs
and 3rd parties) or writes/integrates/runs MV software applications in
their company (end-customers).

Anyone else willing to add to this list? *If not, I'll drop it, but
thought I would try to revive this question.

--dawn- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
Denver - Paradigm is now P2 Energy Solutions and still runs UniData

Boulder - GWIZ is now BOLO and has been running UniData but is rumored
to be going to InterSystems Cach'e

#26

On Oct 29, 12:13*am, J Ustlookn <justlook... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

Quote:

Denver - Paradigm is now P2 Energy Solutions and still runs UniData
Boulder - GWIZ is now BOLO and has been running UniData but is rumored
to be going to InterSystems Cach'e

Yup, as I said, absorbed!

*grin*

#27

Tony can't be wrong! Heavens.

Tony might be happy to know that Pick Hits was not a list of
application vendors.
And Pete Schellenbach is in it or rather AccuSoft is at any rate. On
several pages !

Also there are user groups and other things. Even consultants I
didn't remember that part.

I'd be interested to know what color the book Ross Ferris has is, I
remember a gray cover, but I think that preceded 1990.

I know have a third version of the book which I just added to my list
of resources. It it a red cover and spiral bound. It claims a
copyright date of 1988 and inside states ... more than 1500 vertical
applications.... (among other things) Just for reference purposes.

The original edition of Pick Hits I believe was in 1985 and was a
small red book the size of a Reader's Digest, not the encyclopedia
things that came out later. I got rid of my copies a decade ago
because I thought I'd never need them, and now that I'm a historian of
sorts ... I need them again.

Will

#28

wjhonson wrote:

Quote:

Tony can't be wrong! Heavens.

Tony might be happy to know that Pick Hits was not a list of
application vendors.
And Pete Schellenbach is in it or rather AccuSoft is at any rate. On
several pages !

For at least the third time, I said it didn't have end-users. That
was the point. Quibbling about whether Utility=Application was an
inconsequential sideline.

Quote:

Also there are user groups and other things. Even consultants I
didn't remember that part.

Almost all of the user groups are gone. The only ones left are listed
at Spectrum and PickWiki. Same might be said for the consultants.

Quote:

and now that I'm a historian of
sorts ... I need them again.

Historian, eh? Well, two comments on that:

First, your web page is inaccurate, incomplete, and biased - the study
of history should be unbiased. It's good to have alternative
resources to PickWiki, U2UG, Spectrum, and other sources (which they
reference) for that material - but if you're going to post something,
check the other sources plus some of your own and at least get the
data right.

Second, this thread is about current Pick shops but you've taken a
turn toward history. A line needs to be drawn. I still maintain that
outting current end-users is inappropriate and I cited specific
reasons why, which have been ignored. Though I don't see anything
wrong with gathering a list of historical data.

The consistent thread in this discussion is that it seems people just
want to post text regardless of whether it's accurate or appropriate.
My contention is that content needs to be filtered to ensure accuracy
and to reflect good business decorum. This is similar to the blur
between News and Entertainment in TV today, where providers blur the
line and it's up to consumers to figure out where the lines are from
one minute to the next. There is a social dynamic going on here and
it's unfortunate that some people just don't get it - especially in a
business/technical forum.

T

#29

On Nov 13, 11:52*am, Tony Gravagno <nos... (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid> wrote:

Quote:

wjhonson *wrote:
Tony can't be wrong! *Heavens.

Tony might be happy to know that Pick Hits was not a list of
application vendors.
And Pete Schellenbach is in it or rather AccuSoft is at any rate. *On
several pages !

For at least the third time, I said it didn't have end-users. *That
was the point. *Quibbling about whether Utility=Application was an
inconsequential sideline.

You said, and I quote it had vars not end-users. Well it didn't have
just vars, and that was my point. You said earlier we shouldn't be
publishing a list of companies who use Pick. You didn't qualify that
statement to exclude end-users until I responded that published lists
like this have been around since the 1980s. Lists of "companies who
use Pick" that is. I never specified end-users or not, you are the
one who brought in that Red Herring.

Quote:

Also there are user groups and other things. *Even consultants I
didn't remember that part.

Almost all of the user groups are gone. *The only ones left are listed
at Spectrum and PickWiki. *Same might be said for the consultants.

I don't see the relevance of that comment. However I doubt you could

support it with an actual name-by-name list, since you'd have to make
that public....

Quote:

and now that I'm a historian of
sorts ... I need them again.

Historian, eh? *Well, two comments on that:

First, your web page is inaccurate, incomplete, and biased - the study
of history should be unbiased. *It's good to have alternative
resources to PickWiki, U2UG, Spectrum, and other sources (which they
reference) for that material - but if you're going to post something,
check the other sources plus some of your own and at least get the
data right.

My article was never intended to be accurate, complete and unbiased in
the first place. It was never intended to be a study of history. And
you my dear whiner could be specific and help the community or you
could sit in your corner and throw rocks at others. That's your
choice isn't it? My choice is to make a page of the resources which I
choose, and if anyone else wants to add to it, the Edit button is
right there.

Quote:

Second, this thread is about current Pick shops but you've taken a
turn toward history. *A line needs to be drawn. *I still maintain that
outting current end-users is inappropriate and I cited specific
reasons why, which have been ignored. *Though I don't see anything
wrong with gathering a list of historical data.

No Tony. This thread is about "companies who use Pick". None of us
is going to have a comprehensive view on which of those historical
companies "no longer" use Pick, although together, all of us, might be
able to figure that out. I know a few companies who used Pick, who no
longer use Pick.

Quote:

The consistent thread in this discussion is that it seems people just
want to post text regardless of whether it's accurate or appropriate.

Including yourself. Your comments hardly advance any position, rather
they regard any.

Quote:

My contention is that content needs to be filtered to ensure accuracy
and to reflect good business decorum.

Good business decorum as you see it, and as others do not see it.
That's the beauty of free speech and liberty isn't it?

Quote:

This is similar to the blur
between News and Entertainment in TV today, where providers blur the
line and it's up to consumers to figure out where the lines are from
one minute to the next. *There is a social dynamic going on here and
it's unfortunate that some people just don't get it - especially in a
business/technical forum.

Yes it's unfortunate that some people just don't get it. Some people
want to create artificial restrictions and then impose them on
others. Other people want to break those artificial restrictions and
announce the liberty of the masses from oppression

And so it goes.

Will

#30

Could we please please please kill this discussion already???
Anything positive that MIGHT have come out of this thread died long
ago.

Sincerely,
Steve