Scenario: Medium sized manufacturing company with 150 knowledge
workers in 7 divisions in 4 states. Dominate Network Operating System
(NOS) is an old version of Netware with GroupWise for email used at one
company. All the others are using POP3 services provided by the host
of their web site. Network Administrator (NA) is deeply rooted in
Novell products. User community doesn't have a strong preference,
although the executives appear to prefer Outlook. The next release of
GroupWise this summer will provide 100% functionality with Outlook.
Production database is D3 running on RedHat Linux.


Analysis
Politically, moving away from Novell Directory Services, Netware and
GroupWise to Active Directory, Windows 2003 Server and Exchange would
be easy. Going the other way, may be political suicide.

The decision made will affect the company for probably the next 10
years. The company does not make huge investments in IT often. Little
or no budget for hardware, software and training.

The goal of the company is to be turned into an attractive target of
acquisition.

Cost of moving to Microsoft would probably be about 20% higher than
expanding use of Netware/GroupWise.


Questions
Given all this, shouldn't the company move everything over to
Windows/Exchange, including moving D3 to Windows? Wouldn't going 100%
Microsoft be the best way to go despite issues of security holes in the
Windows platform, OR would building the NOS on NDS/Netware/GroupWise be
a better way to go? Why?

The NA is very knowledgeable and deeply passionate about his work, but
is reluctant to embrace the all Microsoft direction. In all
likelyhood, he would quit. This would be unfortunate since he has been
a great asset to the company.

Would staffing need to increase to handline a Microsoft solution?

Would server hardware costs increase since beefier hardware would be
needed to handle Windows?

Does D3 run better on Linux than Windows?

Is anyone running D3 on Suse Linux?

What are your thoughts?


Regards,
Danny

Danny,

The last Novell network I set up was Netware 3.12 and the
last Windows was Windows 2003 Small Business Server.

The Netware was years ago and was ultimately replaced
by Windows NT servers to be compatible with corporate.

The Windows 2003 SBS server upgrade had some problems.

Things that worked under Windows NT 4.0 sp6a broke
under W2003. For instance. The print servers would not
work under 2003. They would have worked had I
stayed with W2k server.

The D3 server on another W2003 server, but not SBS
had problems with the DIGIBOARD. The latest greatest
drivers did not work. I got continual lock-ups. It was
not until I downloaded the previous drivers and installed
them (a torturous process) that I got the DIGI to work.

The choice of hardware and hardware vendor may make\
a difference. The servers were bought pre-configured
from Dell. I had to install D3 and configure the network.

You might consider purchasing a system from a vendor
that knows about D3 (Pick) and could install the software
for you and provide a turnkey system. (I did spell turn-key
did I not. I meant that - not turkey). These clients do
not use an in-house email server. I should have left the
Exchange software installed. There are many benefits
that they are missing.

The D3 server does not necessarily have to be the
same O/S or even NOS as the Domain controllers.

The local junior college offers MCSE classes, but
nothing for Novell. The software applications they
reach are basically Microsoft Office. That's in
the CSIS department. Some other departments,
in the graphics area teach Macintosh stuff.

I'm a fan of Windows, so I would convert to
the Windows based systems.

Oh - another nice thing about Windows 2003 servers
with Windows XP Pro machines. The XP computers
are remarkably easy to install and configure. For
example, printers show up automatically. That's
nice when you've got a dozen printers to add.

Hope this helps,

Larry Hazel

"Homer L. Hazel" <hNoOmerlhANTI (AT) SPAMcox (DOT) net> wrote


Well that's like comparing apples and elephants. I say this because Novell
Netware is now on version 6.5

I've used both Outlook and Groupwise (6.x) running on Novell 6.x. And, the
only thing I can say is that to date that our company in the 8+ years of
using Groupwise (About 450 users), that not ONE virus, self executing
executable, or mass raping of one's address book has occured using
Groupwise.

The other networks are HPUX and Windows (most upgraded to 2003). I'm not
trying to rip Microsoft, but for email, I would never use Exchange/Outlook
etc. You can use Novell O/S and Groupwise for email and happily co-exist
with other Microsoft O/S.

Sorry but comparing Novell 3.12 to Windows 2003 is just plain unfair.

Donald Verhagen
Tandem Staffing Solutions, Inc.
Delray Beach, FL 33445 USA

Don,

I was not trying to compare Novell 3.12 to Windows 2003 Small Business
Server.

I was trying to expose my lack of knowledge about Novell. You MAY note that
I did not talk about any of the strengths and weaknesses of Novell, only
that it
was replaced.

Larry Hazel

"don" <donverhagen (AT) snappydsl (DOT) net> wrote

I would keep D3 on Linux ! I believe platform is far more stable. I
would keep to the "straight & narrow" Linux wise - RD support RHE3, so
that is what I'd use, rather than Suse until (if[ever]) RD support it.

Database on Linux makes sense, 'cause a Virsus may sweep in & kill all
windows machines, but data safe on Linux --> If Linux box doesn't have
an exposed edge to the net, then shouldn't ever get a virus (I haven't
heard of a virus that will cross OS boundaries)

Ross Ferris wrote:
prone to attacks since obscurity can be security, at least as far
as viruses is concerned.

my 2, Patrick <;=)

ddspell-m3 wrote:

If the goal is to make itself most attractive to a buyer, then all this
tech stuff is nonsense. A buyer would find a Microsoft shop more
appealing than a Novell shop. A buyer would find Novell a "less-known"
asset, and would probably feel that they have to make additional
investments to integrate it into their (probable) Microsoft shop.

Ross:

I would disagree. Moving D3 to the Windows platform ensures the ability to
upgrade D3 without also having to upgrade the underlying O/S.

D3NT v7.4.x will still run on NT4.0 but only D3Linux v7.4.1 (or whatever)
will run on RHE3.

Bill

"Ross Ferris" <rossf (AT) stamina (DOT) com.au> wrote

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:09:35 -0700, "Bill H" <notme (AT) nowhere (DOT) org> wrote:

I agree with this, and also that windows will usually be seen as easier to
integrate. AIX may also have some cache from the stability standpoint. I think
Linux on the server is gaining 'buzzword' credibility, and might be spun as
being ahead of the curve soon if not today.

I like the easy host OS control of a Unix/Linux hosted D3. Pick is a command
line beastie that can issue command line instructions well. Most Unix tools can
be thoroughly controlled via a command line. Windows apps/OS are usually best
controlled by the Ole/DDE/.Net flavor of the week. If you need host OS control,
budget the resources to build/buy an intermediary layer to translate from D3
commands to Windows objects.

I think I would make the D3 Windows/Linux choice based on my companies
position. First, what capabilities does each OS bring to the table that
specifically helps my company. What weaknesses will I need to overcome in each
of them. (training, stability, vulnerability, availability of support, etc.)
What are my staffs strengths and weaknesses. If this were a critical situation
for the company, I would want to find reasonably priced local admin training
for each OS and have my IT staff attend training for both. You and they will be
able to make more informed choices at that point.

Also, you don't have to change the file server OS and D3 host OS at the same
time. We use Linux to host D3 and to run networking services (SSL, Web caching,
etc). We use Windows 2003 as a file server and app server.

As a company, your business apps are the only thing holding you to a particular
system. It sounds like those run in D3. As an acquisition target you could
point out that you just made an easy transition of your file serving OS and
database host OS, and that you have the flexibility to change again if needed.
Simply demonstrating that you completed the transition well may be a plus (we
manage internal projects well?).

-Sean

Sholom Hamada <shamada (AT) prupipe (DOT) com> wrote:

I don't have much new to contribute but I agree with Sholom in a
tangential sort of way. Most of the acquisitions that I've heard
of involved the gutting and replacement of the entire IT
infrastructure by the new owners, so it may not matter what your IT
assets are. If you're using more obscure software like Novell and
Groupwise (sorry fans) then your chances of being acquired are less
and your chances of being gutted after acquisition are higher.

About D3 NT vs Linux: I agree with Bill: "Moving D3 to the Windows
platform ensures the ability to upgrade D3 without also having to
upgrade the underlying O/S." However, "supposedly" RHEL has a much
less radical development path than before, so upgrades and migration
are less likely. (Personally I use CentOS anyway.) Also, while NT is
a little more sophisticated in some ways, there are issues with D3 NT
that haven't been fixed in years - issues with Linux may take time to
fix but they are eventually resolved. I'm hoping to see a v7.5 or
v8.0 that addresses issues in both platforms, but until that release
is out and stable, I'd tend to support Linux more for production
servers. Don't get me wrong, I love my D3 NT for personal development
but when I fire up my Linux box I'm more focused on core development
than I am on VME/FSI differences or platform security.

I think the chances of survival for IT systems and employees are
higher if you just have a real stable environment that manages the
business well - and the ability to communicate with other systems is
vital. This makes the choice of technology less important than just
doing the right thing with what you have.

Tony

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