Thought people would like to know that I've established this group. It
is NOT aligned in any way with the company - though they may be members
of the group 8)

Join here http://groups-beta.google.com/group/DesignBAIS - Why adult
content? Because I didn't think children would be interested!

All,

This group is not affiliated with DesignBais. Please do not join until
we have approved the group.

Rick Weiser
DesignBais International
rick (AT) designbais (DOT) com

Raining Data/Pick Systems isn't affiliated with CDP either but us guys here
still use it as great resource and a way of getting help.

You're not wanting to stifle collaboration or getting help from others that
have found a better way are you?

RD could and I hope does glean a lot of issues from CDP, and I think that
the makers of DesignBais could do the same.

Regards,

Dale

"Rick" <rweiser (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

Dale Benedict wrote:
Hell yes. An independent, user-supported group is in many ways
preferable to a group controlled by a supplier. Especially if the
supplier subscribes to it as well.

Luke

Dale,

I do not argue this point. I agree that user forums are VERY important
to the life cycle of a product. In fact, I created the jBASE group on
Google a few months ago (with jBASEs' approval I might add).

The problem is that this forum (CDP) is not called RainingData.
Therefore, users know that RD has no affiliation with this group. The
owner of the DesignBais group decided on his own to create the group
calling it DesignBais and then created a owners email of
DesignBais (AT) hotmail (DOT) com. He also labelled this group as an adults only
group.

So, everything he has done here is completely unprofessional and sheds
a bad light on DesignBais.

I have sent numerious emails to the owner of the group requesting that
he contact me to discuss his ownership of the group and he refuses to
return an email.

So, until he does, DesignBais is asking that users refrain from joining
this list. DesignBais does have a User forum of its own:

http://designbais.bais.com.au/forum/

We are looking to use Google but need to have this resolved first.

Thanks,

Rick Weiser
Support Manager
DesignBais International
rick (AT) designbais (DOT) com

"Rick" <rweiser (AT) comcast (DOT) net> wrote

This newsgroup forum was created when Raining Data was PICK SYSTEMS hence
the comp.databases.*pick*.

So, in fact, when the newsgroups was created users could have assumed that
this newsgroup was in some way affilicated with Pick Systems, they'd also be
wrong.

Just a little history.

Donald Verhagen

And "Pick" used to be very protective of their name ! I remember back
in the late 80's getting a letter from Pick's laywers asking us to stop
using the name "Pick" .... back then we were called "Pickworks". We
were not alone - IIRC "Pick Products", "Australian Pick Systems" (APS
became CueBic in time) all received letters - I think Bob Guthrie
actually got 'approval' to retain the name

Some years later we DID change the company name, but that was so we
could get past the IT people at the front door.

Whilst on one hand I 'understood', I also questioned the wisdom of NOT
promoting the "Pick" name .... and as a footnote, the name I liked best
was Professionals In Computer Knowledge - I think P.I.C.K may still be
around :-)

don wrote:

Although this is Comp.databases.PICK many U2, Jbase, MVOn, AREV people
come on here as well !!

I think the point being made was that at the time this group was formed,
Pick Systems was the name of a company, so it *might* be reasonably be
recognised that this group was somehow related to and supported by the
company. It is accepted these days that this group represents the users of
all "Multi-value" variants.

DesignBais seem to be (possibly reasonably) worried that a google group has
been set up in the name of DesignBais. This would suggest that the group is
set up, supported and moderated by DesignBais where in actual fact it has no
affiliation with them at all.

I think that the situation with DesignBais is somewhat different to
comp.databases.pick. CDP is hosted on UseNet which I believe can
reasonably be assumed to be an an unmoderated medium. The DesignBais
group is hosted on google, which does support moderation (so I believe). It
would not be unreasonable for the casual user to assume therefore that
DesignBais moderate the group and that therefore any postings made within it
are supported by DesignBais - which may or may not be the case.

I'm no lawyer, but in my opinion I believe DesignBais have a right to feel
aggrieved.

Regards
Simon
<symeonb (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote

Simon is correct. There are many problems from the get-go here:
- The forum moderator has already shown signs of inappropriate
moderation for a public forum.
- The forum moderator seems to have an axe to grind which puts into
question whether the forum is a group for Users, or a group for a few
people to simply rag without allowing the vendor to comment or remedy
issues. How would any of you like it if someone started a "public"
forum using your own company name, and censored anything except
comments which they approved of? Especially if they don't like you?
Will the group creator do this? We have no idea, and that's part of
the problem.
- The forum moderator has chosen an e-mail address that implies that
he is somehow associated with the product. That's just wrong from an
ethical standpoint.
- The forum moderator seems unwilling to discuss these issues with
others in a professional manner, making the whole thing highly
suspect.

My strong recommendation is to avoid this group at this time. It is
not like the other reputable forums in our market like CDP, or e-mail
lists for U2, jBASE, OpenQM, RDTA VARs, or others.

HTH
Tony
TG@ removethisNebula-RnD
..com

"Simon Verona" <news (AT) aphroditeuk (DOT) com> wrote: