mv.NET user forum?

I'm starting to use mv.NET. I'm wondering if there is a Google group or
a listserver dedicated to mv.NET.

Does anyone know of one?

sh <shamada (AT) prupipe (DOT) com> wrote:

I'm starting to use mv.NET. I'm wondering if there is a Google group or
a listserver dedicated to mv.NET.
Does anyone know of one?

A very timely question. No there isn't yet but it's been discussed.
Especially now with the new v3.x features there is a need to get
information and insight into the hands of more people and faster than
before.

Starting next week I'll start posting at least weekly tech articles on
mv.NET to my blog, just like the regular material on DesignBais. If
you'd like to send me a question I can provide an answer, code, etc in
a blog entry, and comments can be posted in response.

Your best resource is (should be) your vendor. As an mv.NET
Distributor I was thinking about opening an mv.NET section on my forum
in early September, but between direct support for our clients and the
blog I haven't seen much need.

What do you think?

Tony
Nebula R&D is an authorized Distributor for mv.NET
http:// removethisNebula-RnD.com/products/mvdotnet/mvdotnet.htm
http:// removethisNebula-RnD.com/blog

Tony Gravagno wrote:

A very timely question. No there isn't yet but it's been discussed.
Especially now with the new v3.x features there is a need to get
information and insight into the hands of more people and faster than
before.

Starting next week I'll start posting at least weekly tech articles on
mv.NET to my blog, just like the regular material on DesignBais.

That would be nice.

If you'd like to send me a question I can provide an answer, code, etc in
a blog entry, and comments can be posted in response.

My interest right now is mv.NET and web services. Due to circumstances
(programming PDAs), I can't use direct connections to my MV system, so
I'm forced into using web services as my data source. I'd like to see
some good info on doing that kind of thing. Also, I've corresponded with
Dave Cooper about their new Gateway component (a web service). He says
it can be used as the back end to databinding. I'd like to see info on
that, because it would reduce license requirements.

Your best resource is (should be) your vendor.

If you mean my VAR, ha!

As an mv.NET
Distributor I was thinking about opening an mv.NET section on my forum
in early September, but between direct support for our clients and the
blog I haven't seen much need.

What do you think?

I don't think it's necessary to go overboard on your personal blog on
this. But I do think there is a need for some central repository for
user (and vendor) Q&A - whether via the BlueFinity site itself, it's own
newsgroup, Google group or a listserver.

I do want BlueFinity to take an active part in the give-and-take of the
forum. That way it becomes an invaluable source of information for end
users as well as a vehicle for the vendor to show their support and
concern for their users. It's a real turn-off when a vendor hosts a Q&A
forum and then provides minimal imput to it (except to make product
announcements), letting end-users fend for themselves (read RD).

(Remember, Tony, when you were the "unofficial" vendor representative
for RD on this newsgroup? See where it got you! (sarcasm intended).)

mv.NET seems to be a great tool, with great people behind it. I'd like
to see it succeed. A user forum would be step in the right direction.

Tony
Nebula R&D is an authorized Distributor for mv.NET
http:// removethisNebula-RnD.com/products/mvdotnet/mvdotnet.htm
http:// removethisNebula-RnD.com/blog

sholom wrote:

Tony Gravagno wrote:

A very timely question. No there isn't yet but it's been discussed.
Especially now with the new v3.x features there is a need to get
information and insight into the hands of more people and faster than
before.

Starting next week I'll start posting at least weekly tech articles on
mv.NET to my blog, just like the regular material on DesignBais.

That would be nice.

If you'd like to send me a question I can provide an answer, code, etc in
a blog entry, and comments can be posted in response.

My interest right now is mv.NET and web services. Due to circumstances
(programming PDAs), I can't use direct connections to my MV system, so
I'm forced into using web services as my data source. I'd like to see
some good info on doing that kind of thing. Also, I've corresponded with
Dave Cooper about their new Gateway component (a web service). He says
it can be used as the back end to databinding. I'd like to see info on
that, because it would reduce license requirements.

Web Services by definition abstract the implementation from the
client. If you can connect from your PDA to your web server with a
Web Service then the code you execute on the web server to get into
the DBMS is the same as any other code. That is, mv.NET doesn't have
different techniques for accessing the DBMS when the client comes from
a web service, web page, windows service, or thick client.

The gateway component allows a remote/internet client to connect
directly into a DBMS server without having to go through services on
the web server. In a typical topology with a web server, you have:
client >HTTP> web server >service> DBMS
For a thick client you have:
client >local service> DBMS
Or more typically:
client >middle tier service> DBMS
where the middle tier brokers connections from many clients.

In an internet environment a client can't connect to a DBMS from a
service running locally, and they can't access services on a middle
tier unless sockets are exposed to the internet. To solve this
problem, a client can use a thick client with a web service that
tunnels into the network where the DBMS is located, there it uses a
middle tier service to get into the DBMS.

This topology allows us to run thick-client front-ends over the
internet, opens the door for ClickOnce deployment, etc.

As always, there are considerations for performance, but I would much
rather have someone tell me I can do something at less than optimum
speed rather than tell me I can't do something. Technically we could
have done this ourselves prior to gateways, but with built-in gateways
and letting mv.NET handle the web service connectivity it just becomes
much easier. (It's that "my vendor should be doing this" principle in
practice.)

Your best resource is (should be) your vendor.

If you mean my VAR, ha!

That's disturbing. Call Bob Markowitz at BlueFinity if you're not
pleased with the value-add you get from your reseller.

As an mv.NET
Distributor I was thinking about opening an mv.NET section on my forum
in early September, but between direct support for our clients and the
blog I haven't seen much need.

What do you think?

I don't think it's necessary to go overboard on your personal blog on
this. But I do think there is a need for some central repository for
user (and vendor) Q&A - whether via the BlueFinity site itself, it's own
newsgroup, Google group or a listserver.

I do want BlueFinity to take an active part in the give-and-take of the
forum. That way it becomes an invaluable source of information for end
users as well as a vehicle for the vendor to show their support and
concern for their users. It's a real turn-off when a vendor hosts a Q&A
forum and then provides minimal imput to it (except to make product
announcements), letting end-users fend for themselves (read RD).

(Remember, Tony, when you were the "unofficial" vendor representative
for RD on this newsgroup? See where it got you! (sarcasm intended).)

mv.NET seems to be a great tool, with great people behind it. I'd like
to see it succeed. A user forum would be step in the right direction.


Tony
Nebula R&D is an authorized Distributor for mv.NET
http:// removethisNebula-RnD.com/products/mvdotnet/mvdotnet.htm
http:// removethisNebula-RnD.com/blog

You're making all of the same arguments I've been making with
BlueFinity for at least the last year. Now that v3 is available and
the major crunch is behind them, maybe they'll have another look at
this. I'm very pleased with BlueFinity as a vendor, their
responsiveness, etc. As with most companies, doing the things
discussed here takes resources that aren't always available.
Understanding this, I take it upon myself to try to do things that we
expect them to do, at least until they can start doing it for
themselves. Like with DesignBais, there is so much that can be done
with the product which isn't documented yet, so I put info in my blog,
people see more value in their product, DBI gets more sales, I get
clients because of my knowledge and close relations with the vendor,
the vendor gives me more access to information because they know and
appreciate how it's being used, clients are happy, the vendor gets
more funding for doing better things - it's all really a win for
everyone. I have the same relationship with BlueFinity/mv.NET, and I
used to have it with RD/D3.

From a vendor perspective, (and this is coming from me, I'm not an
official voice for policy statements for of these vendors) a public
forum can be double-edged. On the positive side, a forum allows a
vendor to say something once and it's then available to everyone.
This saves time in future support efforts. On the negative side a
good amount of candor and hand-holding can be exercised in private
email which needs to be more reserved in public. There are often
concerns for privacy and solicitation, fear of public flames or other
dissent, etc.

As a reseller I would be concerned that my clients would post
questions to a public forum which I could easily anwer, but the fact
that they're in public could give the impression that I'm not doing my
job or that I failed to provide an answer. Even if I post a quick
public response, this indirect relationship with my own client
wouldn't reflect well on my value as a support provider, and it might
bring into question exactly why I'm getting a commission from support
fees. (There are lots of reasons for that as any vendor here knows.)
I would also be concerned that when my clients present a problem in a
forum, that one of my competitors would try to walk in to provide
something that I already provide.

I'm using the first-person here but these things could be concerns of
any reseller or the developers themselves. I'm all for competition
and I'm occasionally (and with respectful reservation) the
aforementioned competitor. These are all just things for people to
think about when they're considering a public forum. Remember, I'm
all FOR it, other people may take more time coming to the same
conclusion.

T