Goo'day, Tom...

On 12 Apr 2006 19:32:51 -0700, "Tom deL" <ted (AT) blackflute (DOT) com> wrote:

Oi! What the %$#^&*>* blazes has this got to do with me?

Leave me owtuvit, mate I'm just an innocent bystander here - the
sort of bloke that gets called to give evidence, but can't quite
remember the details.... <g>

Annnnnnd, what makes you think that us Orstralians do things
arse-backwards, anyway? Upside down, maybe... D'you know something
about him that I don't? All I've got to work with is that he's from
"yahoo.com" - and that makes me feel *really* good, because, where I'm
from a "yahoo" is a mug lair, a crass yobbo, cf "Gulliver's Travels"
I believe.... It's always made me giggle - tee hee a little bit - that
somebody would want to use *that* name for a business.....and their
customers tell you freely they're from there.....

But he does strike me as belonging on t'other side, over there near
SQL kingdom..... "Convert from what? Pick? That wouldn't be too
hard, not with my level of intelligence. I know it all... I'll make a
fortune here... Now, how can I do this for as little an outlay as
possible? I know. There's cdp. They're not like us there. They
help each other.... And that won't cost me anything.....Trust me,
fellas. Data conversion coming right up!"

Wonder who dresses him in the morning....



Bruce Nichol
Talon Computer Services
ALBURY NSW Australia

http://www.taloncs.com.au

If it ain't broke, fix it until it is....

jasonb1900 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com wrote:
I was going to warn you that "export" is not supported on D3NT but I
know that verb will tell you right off to use "copy", which is why I
provided a copy command in my last post. I'm glad the Pick Query
software seems to be helping.

About the difficulty of the task, it's pretty straight-forward for
someone who is familiar with the environment but not for someone who
is not. I'd guess you might find some SQL Server functions to be easy
for you but it might take some time to explain them to a guy like me
who spends all my time with Pick. Understand that extracting all of
the useful data from any system is bound to involve some details that
can't be documented in just a few minutes time.

About helpfulness from the group, I'll speak for myself but I'd guess
there will be some nods of agreement out there. This is generally a
very helpful and friendly group and I'm proud to call most of the
people we see here my friends. Like many others, I sell my time and
experience, but I give it away where I think it will help the
community. I derive neither joy nor financial benefit by giving away
information that makes my market smaller, so you need to come to the
table with a little more than a half baked request and expectations of
generosity. Sheesh, at least offer to buy someone a cup of coffee for
helping you to do your job. A couple of us have offered a few words
on things you need to look out for (data typing, etc) as well as
higher level assistance to save your company from some pain which at
this point seems imminent. Amongst a little ribbing we've given you
the opportunity to guide this project toward success and you've given
us no indication that you really want it to succeed. "I'm not the one
who made the decision", "All I was asking was a simple question" - I'm
sorry but those aren't the remarks of someone who is responsible for a
real data migration project. I'm fairly certain our warnings won't
get to your management but considering they didn't give you any time
or budget to get this done I'm guessing they don't care much either.

You've been very courteous and I don't want you to leave with a bad
impression - just try to see it all from our viewpoint. We've been a
little difficult about it, but we have provided more help than you
might have obtained elsewhere.

Good luck.
Tony
TG@ removethisNebula-RnD.com

Tony Gravagno <g6q3x9lu53001 (AT) sneakemail (DOT) com.invalid> wrote in
news:eq5s325eeuhus7tt5c3f07likseroj28jr (AT) 4ax (DOT) com:

This group is quite helpful to the "regulars" and to those with questions
that have rather simple, obvious answers (e.g., the 'my copy command is
not working...' thread). However, like most of the other db groups, this
group is also pretty selective in who gets the help and who gets the boot.
If you're not considered to be "on the team", fageddaboudit. The OP is a
case in point.

Welcome to the world of contemporary IT management. Plenty of times I've
seen just that - incompetent management sadding underlings with
impossible/improbable tasks coupled with little or no resources if for no
other reason to provide a scapegoat if all things fail.

And that's the whole point of a ng like this - the exchange and sharing of
ideas related to the topic at hand. IMO, the OP complied perfectly. Of
course, this is USENET after all, and unruly behavior is to be expected.

FWLIW, I'd suggest that more people try to see things from the OP's POV.
This tendency to remain "inside the MV/Pick box" is one of the reasons
companies like the OP's are moving away from MV/Pick. It might be
enlightening to try and understand why MV/Pick is seen as "undesirable"
rather than just dismissing the move.

Regards,
Joe

"Joe" <nobody (AT) home (DOT) now> wrote


<Observation and comment>
I like your parting comment, Joe! It seems to me that forums such as this
one are designed to share ideas and pose questions. I'm sure we have all
helped someone with a need and have been helped as well.

I would assume most of us are employed as well. Sure, some are SELF
employed.

That being said, none of us get paid by this forum - directly. However,
there are certainly "opportunity costs/benefits" by participating. My own
experience suggests that helping has its rewards, and I'm not speaking about
"metaphysical" rewards! Granted, people like TG, Glen, Tom, Mark, etc. might
be doing a helluva lot more helping than requesting, but still...

Just consider how your perspective might change should you have a pressing
need and you drop into this group for help. The old adage about "walking a
mile in someone's shoes" has merit. The Golden Rule anyone?

Also, since so many of us here have a similar number of years' service in MV
and there seems to be little "new blood" entering our niche of the world,
would it be so difficult to cut the inexperienced and some of the few "new
bloods" a little slack? If we succeed in offending the inexperienced and
new, where does that leave us? Of course there is the possibility that some
of us could care less because once we retire, we're done! I would hope that
is NOT the case!

<huge assumption and sarcasm>
There are many more points to ponder that I could suggest, but I believe
we're all intelligent enough to arrive at our own conclusions.
</>
</>

hopefully helpfully offered...

-Bruce H (safely enclosed in flame retardant suit)

<heading off obvious comments>
"He who has the Gold makes the Rules" doesn't >>>_specifically_<<< apply in
this instance...it would just be a sarcastic comment.

"I've walked more than a mile in those shoes" - yeah, haven't most of us?
That's my point! We could and should be more helpful _because_ we have the
experience and knowledge!

"If I give away the farm, I will have no place for my animals!" - I doubt
the whole farm is given away, by any stretch of the imagination. Besides,
most of the time helpfulness is rewarded. Also, enough of the "farm" can be
given away to suggest that the solution requires more than originally
realized by a requestor for help (um, except in cases like "My Copy
command..."). In those cases we can get someone started down the right track
and then offer our fee-based services. Tony seems to utilize this tactic
well.

..
..
..
- The list can go on and on...
</>

-Bruce H

Hi Bruce,

Snipping a bunch somewhat randomly for legibility ...

Your sentiments are well taken and are laudable. Can you offer any
rules of thumb for how much time one should invest in assisting an
obvious troll in his efforts to use your good will and kindness to make
an ass of you?

In short I am quite happy to offer what little knowledge I have within
the bounds of what time I can afford to give - my money isn't afraid to
be where my mouth is. On the other hand, I will not assist cowards
hiding behind what they think are anonymous e-mail accounts in their
attempts to make fools of those honestly offering assistance.

Maybe it's just a difference in perception (or homework).
-Tom

Hi
D3 has a dozen different ways to shift data. The most obvious being ODBC.
Your rubbish remarks show that you have not looked very closely at the
manual which gives several ways a programmer can move the data. Plus a
couple that any competent person could use.
There again one has to wonder at the competence of someone who can prepare a
project plan knowing nothing about the data involved and then gives the job
to someone with equally limited knowledge. Since it is a one-off surely
they can afford someone who knows what he is doing.
Reminds me of a big 4 accounting firm that prepared a spec with 17 pages
defining a terminal specification, pixel size etc and one page on files. I
think they must have charged on weight rather than substance.
I can see a tragedy looming and it is not the fault of Pick, remember it is
working not pie in the sky.
Peter McMurray
<jasonb1900 (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Goo'day, Tom

On 13 Apr 2006 19:10:53 -0700, "Tom deL" <ted (AT) blackflute (DOT) com> wrote:

No, this the THE other one,

If he *is* from Oz, I'd better check with my list of users.... From
the story getting put up, (no budget, no spec, no nuffin) it sounds
like he could be involved .... <g>

No. That's one saving grace - no more vanilla Pick users left in my
tin. He *did* say "Pick" didn't he?


Bruce Nichol
Talon Computer Services
ALBURY NSW Australia

http://www.taloncs.com.au

If it ain't broke, fix it until it is....

"Tom deL" <ted (AT) blackflute (DOT) com> wrote

<ramble>
My intentions here, with regard to this particular "offramp" from the
subject of the OP, is that I prefer to take the high road. No, I don't do
this with the idea I'm better than anyone else. I was brought up to be
helpful rather than hurtful. If someone wants to make an ass out of me, they
are free to do so. I provide enough opportunities for that to happen myself!
Besides, the best revenge against someone who is trying to offend me is to
ignore the offense! It drives 'em nuts!

Also, there have been articles written about how the majority of emails (and
I add newsgroup postings here) are misunderstood because of the lack of
visual clues from body language. What might be a sarcastic comment from one
can easily be misunderstood by many, unless the poster is well known to be
sarcastic. But then there are new readers who don't know that person,
so...maybe it behooves us to be more circumspect in our postings.

I was also wondering how much business I may have lost by giving my own help
"for free"...and then wondered how much I may have gained. Very hard to
gauge, taken together and honestly considered. Companies have long used the
idea of "goodwill" to their monetary advantage. As for Trolls, there have
always been trolls and there will always be trolls. I'd rather not withhold
from the majority because of a minority.

Just my own way of looking at things. YMMV (and probably does). As an added
aside, I'm not some young idealist with stars in his eyes and rose colored
glasses on. I am definitely in the over 50 crowd and am a card-carrying
member of AARP (for those outside the USA: www.aarp.org )! This attitude of
mine has served me well for that length of time and I anticipate its
continued service for some years to come!

Bottom line: I prefer to help rather than hinder. If it's not your style,
fine. Live and let live. I'm just speaking my mind.
</>

"Tom deL" <ted (AT) blackflute (DOT) com> wrote in
news:1144980652.878978.253690 (AT) e56g2000cwe (DOT) googlegroups.com:

Tom, you're just too funny. Did you get beat up a lot as a kid or
something?

Regards,
Joe