As is well known Microsoft is phasing out Windows Mobile - definitely
for smartphones, and probably for mobile devices (Symbol, etc) as well.
The future for MS is Windows Phone 7. But it's very murky how that plays
out for non-smartphone mobile devices. See link below, and associated
links in the article.

http://rcpmag.com/articles/2011/06/1...out-plans.aspx

This is well known (and despised) in the non-smartphone mobile
development community. WM is a dead technology for the future.

We use a few Symbol devices for bar coding in our warehouse. We want to
add more, but with such a future, we don't know which path to take.

Is anyone else facing this dilemma? Does anyone have ideas for a future
path re: bar code readers?

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Sholom

Sholom - Handheld Symbol-style devices have their place but much of
their functionality has been obsoleted by devices most of us commonly
carry in our pocket.

Barcode reading on common mobile phones is easy using the built-in
low-res camera. What do you think about providing employees with
low-cost Android or WP7 phones with extremely limited phone call
capability but with WiFi access? These can be fitted with an app
which you write that does exactly what you need.

If an employee already has an Android or WP7, there's no need to
provide them with a phone, though insurance, security, standards
requirements, and HR issues might point to a policy which mandates
company phones to be used for company purposes.

This also provides people with a mobile platform for other lookups,
not currently possible with the Symbol devices. And with Google Voice
or a similar VOIP service you can essentially use the devices as
onsite walkie-talkies without using actual telephone services.

This one closing door may just open more.

HTH

(BTW, I notice I've been referring to WinMobile in my posts, but yeah,
the proper nomenclature is now WP7.)

sh wrote:

Thanks Tony. It was specifically your mention of using smartphones as
bar code readers in the Android discussion that prompted this question.

A few problems with smartphones

1) Management here would go bonkers about giving the warehouse people
smartphones. Wouldn't trust them (not thievery, just unauthorized use).
How limited is limited phone capability? (However, the walkie-talkie
feature could be very useful.)

2) Are there rugged smartphones appropriate for warehouse use
(MIL-STD-810G), IP-52-rated - drops, water, dust, heat, etc)? I need to
do research on this. Do you know any offhand?

3) What other lookups not available on Symbols do you mean? Like on the
internet?

4) Not another language to learn!!! Do I go with Java, HTML5 (as per the
other discussion), Silverlight? Decisions, decisions! How can I trust
Microsoft, when they themselves don't know which technology to embrace?

Thanks for the input. Hope to hear from you.

Sholom

On 7/21/2011 12:13 PM, Tony Gravagno wrote:

On 2011-07-21 12:50:05 -0400, sh <shamada (AT) prupipe (DOT) com> said:

I agree that smartphones simply do not have, nor will have, the
capabilities and requirements for most "industrial" use. Symbol type
readers and devices have physical design specs and performance features
that you're just not going to get in a consumer grade smartphone.

I believe that Symbol is a subsidiary of Motorola, a company known to
produce Android based smartphones. So, maybe it's possible that Symbol
will adopt Android for future development.

--
Kevin Powick

On 2011-07-21 12:13:52 -0400, Tony Gravagno
<tony_gravagno (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid> said:

T. I think your comment makes it safe to say that you've not worked in
a warehouse or other industrial setting where such specialized
readers/terminals are used.

Such a rugged device, that can rapidly scan a multitude of code types
(bar, QR, etc) from various distances at awkward angles in sub-optimal
conditions, is something that a smartphone with a low-res camera won't
be replacing any time soon.

--
Kevin Powick

On 7/21/2011 1:29 PM, Kevin Powick wrote:
The problem is the here and now. If you visit the Symbol web site, they
have a number of interesting items, but they all run Windows Mobile 6.5.

My gut feeling is that Symbol can't plan for the future either, because
Microsoft hasn't divulged any clear future path for these devices.
Remember, MS had to do a complete turnaround for Win Phone 7. How can,
and will, that translate for rugged device?

We have a Symbol sales rep who has promised to stop by and show us new
stuff - for the last 2 months! He knows our concerns, and I suspect he
has no answer for us either.

I saw in a white paper "Microsoft operating systems dominate the market
for enterprise mobile devices ... because the Microsoft environment
provides ... a clear migration path" - to which my co-worker said "yeah,
a clear migration path to obsoleteness".

Sholom

BTW, if you are interested in rugged, industrial strength tablet
computers, see www.motioncomputing.com

Sholom

On 7/21/2011 1:29 PM, Kevin Powick wrote:

On 2011-07-21 14:54:36 -0400, sh <shamada (AT) prupipe (DOT) com> said:

Thanks for the link. I had not seen those ones before.

--
Kevin Powick

For Kevin and Sholom: Yes, I have worked in warehouse environments
and am familiar with various requirements, not all of course. Sholom
didn't say rugged or provide other specifics, he said he needed
something to fill a void. "Rugged" is a "nice to have" amidst higher
priority "gotta haves". We just didn't get to this or other
requirements in the discussion yet.

Sure, a small consumer device is only a starting place. My next
suggestion based on his second query would be to look at tablets,
though I'm not familiar with that line of offerings and especially not
familiar with more rugged options.

I was focused on technical features and not environmental, but a quick
google for "rugged smartphone" and similar queries return a number of
hits.

I think a tablet is more in line with defined needs here. You don't
need to worry about phone abuse and the devices are still networked
for data. The screens are larger giving people more real-estate for
data, or at least larger fonts so the company doesn't get suedt for
forcing people to ruin their eyes on a 3-inch screen.

The following is my recommendation based on other technologies. I
haven't done anything more than personal apps yet for mobile and
nothing for tablet, but one of the things I'm trying to get across
lately, is that form factor doesn't matter anymore, it's giving people
access to data they need, when they need it.

As to other features, I'd recommend making an organized attempt to
survey people on the floor:
- When you use the Symbol scanners, have you ever said to yourself, "I
wish I could do 'this' because the device doesn't do it?"
- Do you find yourself repeating some function that you think should
be easier or more automated? Examples include re-scanning, or going to
a terminal to do a lookup.
- Have you ever thought "it would be neat if I could just open my
phone and get 'this' data from the server"? What data would that be?

Give them some time to think it out.

As to technology, let's say you only use the device for two purposes,
scanning and then nothing but data lookups. For scanning, an applet
with any platform-compliant language shouldn't be tough. For data
lookups, just use common web pages. Don't use anything fancy on the
client, keep it dirt-simple, and make the fonts and controls big.
Then you can use your favorite technologies from webserver to DBMS,
like ASP.NET and mv.NET or MVSP. Kick out functional v1.0 pages that
do what people need and then get feedback for v2.0 which may point to
something more sophisticated.

Assume feedback from v1.0 is "the network drops a lot so we can't do
our data lookups". (This should be discovered much sooner, but bear
with me.) Now it's time to consider writing to client-side data
storage, maybe a couple GB into onboard SD - you can put Huge volumes
of data into these things. How to access it? You can still avoid
writing a GUI app by getting a webserver app and creating a little
query environment right on the device. Your client is the browser,
connected locally, and you need a way to render the local content.
That will require some research.

If you want to make more use of the device resources, then this is
where you start looking more at platform-specific apps. At this point
the answer for what should be an app and what should be in a web page
will be a lot more clear, and you'll probably find that hybrid
solutions will be better than trying to bash every problem with a
hammer to turn it into a nail.

Sholom, since you're already a Windows and .NET guy... WP7 won't be
ported to tablet but Windows 8 will (according to recent reading).
The good news here is that it's just another PC, so for this
environment you have a virtually flat learning curve except for
device-specific framework libs. Personally I find that attractive.
The bad news - you still need to wait some months for a W8 tablet.
The good news (again?) is that by the time you write your apps the
devices might be available. I don't like that plan but YMMV.

(Dawn's probably going "I wish he had just said that 2 days ago" -
maybe so.)

HTH
T



Kevin Powick wrote:

Thanks Tony and Kevin for your inputs.

A rugged tablet is definitely something we are looking into. The problem
is, it solves some problems (and dramatically lowers costs) but creates
others.

Our environment is as follows: Each warehouseman has a laptop on his
forklift - for data look-up, picking assignments, etc - all hooked into
D3 via web-services. That's his "mission central". But the forklifts
don't go down the aisles to actually pick the material - the aisles are
narrow, 175-200 ft long and the material is very, very heavy. So the
picker uses a side-loader to bring the material to his forklift.

Now, since the warehouseman may now be over 100 ft away from "mission
central", we give him a smart Symbol device (talking to D3) to scan the
material. It verifies that he has picked the right material from the
right location. If the material is not there, the Symbol allows his to
answer the question "well, where MIGHT the material be", and other such
questions without him having to go back to "mission central" to find out
(the material could be in the next bin).

A rugged tablet would be a good alternative. No problem taking a 2-lb
"mission central" with them down the aisle. That would be great. The
problem is the bar code verification process. While they might place the
tablet down nearby during the picking process (10-15 ft, which is OK for
problem solving), it would not be in their hands during the actual
scanning. So even if I would hook up a Bluetooth enabled bar code
scanner to the tablet, any error message would appear on the tablet -
too far for the picker to see. So I need a scanner that I can load with
enough intelligence to say "beep - wrong location/material".

Also, as you say, a tablet would solve the language barrier. A Win7
tablet upgradable to Win8 is a "win/win" solution (pun intended). It
would also preserve the vast majority of the work put into this project.

We are getting a sales rep from Intermec down here to help us sort this
out. Hopefully he has a crystal ball and can tell us the future.

On 7/22/2011 4:26 AM, Tony Gravagno wrote: