I am having a continuing problem with hardware at one of my installations
and thought I'd inquire as to where others get their hardware or what
brands to consider. I am not a fan of proprietary boxes...

The issue is that the motherboards keep getting zapped. Fourth time now. I
believe that the cause is from a telephone system which connectes to the
box to supply SMDR information. I am today going to be sure that the two
boxes are bonded, and am going to try and install an optical serial device
between the two devices to help isolate the cause.

While I do not think that a change to better hardware is going to solve the
problem I still want others opinions. Where does everyone get boxes for
their D3/NT installs?



Mark

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Much as I dislike Dell, and would never buy one for myself... I am
happy with their servers for my clients.

As long as you don't buy the bottom of the line, they are built very
sturdily.


Mark wrote:

We buy all of our server from Zumasys (www.zumasys.com). They start with an
HP server, then customize it to suit our needs. Hardware support is by HP
and Zumasys. The percentage of problems we have is very small. Sure it cost
a few hundred more, but the peace of mind is worth the price.


"Mark" <mtaylor*@*lrim.com> wrote

I'm a big fan of HP. I have a friend who says he's had good tech
support from Dell, but all my experiences with them have been miserable.

Bruce

Jeffrey Kaufman wrote:

Mark - silly question, but are you running your copper phone lines through
your "surge" protectors?
On my systems, I won't let outside copper touch a box directly. I even go so
far as to use fiber for all terminal connections - copper to the router, and
fiber to the box.
Tom

"Mark" <mtaylor*@*lrim.com> wrote

"Tom Phillips" <squash (AT) computer (DOT) org> wrote in
news:at-dnbwrFLClJjbYnZ2dnUVZ_qyjnZ2d (AT) comcast (DOT) com:

Not sure what you mean exactly...but no. No telephone copper wires go
through any surge protectors used by the computer. In fact, the computer
is not on a surge protector, it is on a UPS.

The connection between the telephone system and the computer is serial to
serial where the telephone system provides SMDR to the computer.

The telephone system has gas fuses protecting it from all wires outside,
both Telco and local leased lines. The only possible entry would be from
the ground of the telephone system.


Strange thing is that the telephone system is never damaged, or maybe it
is and that is why it is zapping the computer. Could a ground in the
computer be damaged and so a surge is finding a path through the serial
port ground to the computer?




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Mark - not sure about the ground question, but we fried a Honeywell once via
a massive surge through one of the terminal data cables. Every since then -
no external copper lines connect to a computer (copper from the ups is the
exception).
Tom

"Mark" <mtaylor*@*lrim.com> wrote

Telephone side electronics are often damaged because a surge uses
that as the outgoing path to earth ground. Appreciate why surges do
damage. It is electricity. It does not crash on equipment like waves
on a beach. Electricity first flows through everything in a complete
path. Only much later is something in that path damaged. Incoming on
AC mains. Through motherboard and outgoing to earth ground via modem
and phone line. Then the serial port or modem can be damaged.

Why is the outgoing path via phone line? Because telephone lines
typically have an excellent connection to earth ground. Even the
telephone equipment has paths that bypass electronics to connect surge
to earth. Telcos earth a 'whole house' type protector in your building
- for free. Free? Yes, because earthed protectors are so effective
and so inexpensive. Effective because it makes a short connection to
earth.

That technique was originally demonstrated by Franklin in 1752. A
protector (lightning rod or surge protector) is not protection. It is
only a connecting device. Protection is earth ground. Does your
protector make a 'less than 10 foot' connection to earth? If not, the
connecting device does not connect to protection; is not effective.

Every incoming wire in every cable must connect to the single point
earth ground. TV cable has this protection using only a ground block
and wire. Some AC electric wires cannot be earthed directly. So that
earthing connection is provided by a 'whole house' protector - only if
you have installed it. Demonstrated above is what happens when AC
electric does not have that 'whole house' protector. For example,
surge may find earth ground, destructively, via telephone line.

Furthermore, a protector adjacent to computer will even contribute to
computer damage. It is a shunt mode device. It connects the surge from
one wire to all others. Now that surge has even more wires to find
earth ground, destructively, via adjacent electronics. No wonder
plug-in protectors do not claim protection (in spec sheets) from
typically destructive type surges. Effective protectors are located
within feet of earth and distant from protected electronics.

Essential is for all protectors to use a common earth ground.
Otherwise ground potential differences can create destructive voltages
across the building. IOW building electric must both meet and exceed
post 1990 NEC earthing requirements.

All electronics contain internal protection that might be effective
on its power cord. Internal protection that can be overwhelmed if any
incoming utility wire (even cable) is not earthed. Any surge not
earthed before entering a building can overwhelm protection inside
appliances - with or without a plug-in protector..

Responsible manufacturers of 'whole house' protectors have names such
as Square D, Intermatic, Leviton, Cutler-Hammer, Siemens, or GE.
Responsible manufacturer names have not been observed in Sears, Radio
Shack, Best Buy, Staples, Wal-mart, Circuit City, K-mart, or your
grocery store. Seen in the latter list are protectors that can even
contribute to damage of adjacent electronics. Most damning is how to
identify ineffective protectors. Easy and obvious: 1) No dedicated
wire for the 'less than 10 foot' earthing connection. 2) Manufacturer
avoids all mention of earthing. No earth ground means no effective
protection - and why a surge may find telephone line as the destructive
path to earth.

Effective 'whole house' protectors are sold in Lowes, Home Depot, and
electrical supply houses.

Meanwhile, how does a UPS work? It connects computer directly to AC
mains when not in battery backup mode. Where is the protection? It is
a direct connection. What stops what 3 miles of sky could not? Look
at that UPS numerical spec sheet. Where does it list each type surge
AND then claim protection? It does not. Many foolishly believe a
plug-in UPS will stop what 3 miles of sky could not. Even UPS
manufacturer does not claim to provide such protection. But again -
and this is essential: no earth ground means no effective protection.
Where is that dedicated earthing wire? Does not exist. Not effective
protection.

Mark wrote:

Great tutorial. Thanks.
Helps explain why isolation grounded electrical outlets are so good for
computer systems.
Tom


"w_tom" <w_tom1 (AT) usa (DOT) net> wrote

On Jan 15, 4:33 pm, "w_tom" <w_t... (AT) usa (DOT) net> wrote:

Excellent information on surges and surge protection is at
http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Li...ion_May051.pdf
- the title is "How to protect your house and its contents from
lightning: IEEE guide for surge protection of equipment connected to AC
power and communication circuits" published by the IEEE in 2005 (the
IEEE is the dominant organization of electrical and electronic
engineers in the US).

A second source is
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/p.../surgesfnl.pdf
- this is the "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to
protect the appliances in your home" published by the National
Institute of Standards and Technology (the US government agency
formerly called the National Bureau of Standards) in 2001

Both guides were intended for wide distribution to the general public
to explain surges and how to protect against them. The IEEE guide was
targeted at people who have some (not much) technical background.

service ground block connect with relatively short wires to the
earthing wire at the power service. If this connection is not short an
earthed surge current can produce a large voltage drop which appears
between the power and telephone wires. This could cause the damage
described.

effective.
But all interconnected equipment (like computer and printer) should be
connected to the same plug-in suppressor, or interconnecting wires,
like LAN should go through the suppressor. Other external wires like
phone, CATV, ... also should to go thorough the suppressor. This is
described in both the IEEE and NIST guides. A plug-in suppressor works
by clamping the voltage on all wires (power and signal) to the common
ground at the suppressor. Not running all wires through a plug-in surge
suppressor could result in the damage described.

neutral and ground and handle all surges.

primarily by earthing.

primarily work by clamping, not earthing. Both the IEEE and NIST guides
say plug-in suppressors are effective.

plugged in to a plug-in suppressor.


clamping, not earthing.

Both the IEEE and NIST guides say plug-in suppressors are effective.
Read the guides for excellent information.,
Never seen - a link from w__ that says plug-in suppressors are not
effective.

--
bud---