I could use some reminders about these 3 implementations of
MultiValue. My impression is that there are no current production
applications written in any of these. Is that accurate?

Another impression is that there have never been any real apps written
in any of them. Is that accurate?

Any stories about how or why they started, who the project lead /
primary developer was for each, etc, would be helpful. I know I have
had some of that info in the past and might be able to find more info,
but anything anyone knows would be helpful.

I did visit the maverick-dbms.org site and I see the list here.
http://www.maverick-dbms.org/contributors.html I'm thinking this
project initiated by Robert C, perhaps, and Winter or Bart was Wol's
(Anthony Y), but I'm not sure.

Are there other similar PICK might-have-been implementations?

Thanks. --dawn

Hi Dawn,

You should add Scarlet DME to the list as well (www.scarletdme.org plus
and http://groups.google.co.uk/group/scarletdme).

This is a fork of the OpenQM GPL code, and as you can see from the
google group, the activity level is quite low.

Cheers,

Brian

On 25/09/2010 20:53, dawn wrote:

On Sep 26, 7:36*am, Brian Speirs <bs... (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote:
I'd suggest that Scarlet is a "branch" of QM, I don't think it would
deserve an entry as I'm not sure that there has been THAT much
develolpment from the Open Source version of QM that Martin originally
released

On Sep 25, 4:36*pm, Brian Speirs <bs... (AT) btinternet (DOT) com> wrote:
Yes, it makes sense to add Scarlet in some way. I think it is now the
only Open Source implementation of PICK, is that correct?
Thanks. --dawn

On Sep 25, 6:13*pm, Ross Ferris <ro... (AT) stamina (DOT) com.au> wrote:
Yeah, I'll see (and ask) what might make sense, likely putting it in
the timeline for QM, showing the branch of the open source product, if
I am understanding the situation properly.

What is the name of the MV Query language in QM? In OpenQM? (is that
different from QM?) In Scarlet? Similarly, what is the name of the
DataBASIC language?
--dawn

Dawn,
To my knowledge, Bart and Winter have not gone beyond the development
phase therefore should not be included in the chart. I might be
wrong but according to ScarletDME wikipage (http://www.scarletdme.org/
wiki/Main_Page) the effort went into creating interfaces, loaders etc.
stuff outside the scope of the database engine itself, so I am not
clear about ScarletDME's claim to be a fork of OpenQM or at least not
yet.
Lucian

On Sep 26, 10:17*am, x <lucian_p... (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote:
Thanks Lucian. I appreciate the perspective.

I also had a colleague off-list point me to my earlier questions about
these and the answers given at that the time I prepared the first
poster. Dave Brown wrote Bart and Montgomery Tidwell wrote Winter. I
do not know if either or both of these were seeded with code from
elsewhere, but I do have some information I can read to try to answer
enough questions to figure out where to put these.

One of the issues with actually putting anything in writing is that
anyone else would do it differently. On the one hand, I would like to
put together a board to assist in this and with another possible
project related to the history of Pick that I'm talking to others
about right now. On the other hand, it is currently quick and easy for
me to decide what type of information goes onto the poster, because
there are not multiple perspectives right now, just mine ;-)

My rules of thumb for what I have included on the poster were
something like this:

1. I cared about the origins and history up to the present related to
two languages, with the MV Query language being my primary interest
and MV BASIC secondary. I was studying SQL and MV Query, including the
mathematical models and end-user computing. Studying the history of
these two languages was one aspect of that research. For example,
others might not be very interested, but I very much would like to
have the names of every MV Query language on the poster. I know the
list at the right hand side of the current poster is not complete in
that it is missing CMQL, the Cache' MultiValue Query Language. Does
anyone know any others that are missing? That is why I asked the name
of the QM version of the MV Query language.

2. I have little interest in hardware, but more interest in operating
systems. I opted not to include the names of OS's in the chart, but
did include various hardware company names as that would cover more
territory than including the OS's. In particular, I tried to get onto
the chart the names of companies that ever ran an implementation of
PICK. They are in the body of the diagram if they were software
companies for Pick or pick-a-likes, like Pr1me (for which I have a
special fondness). They are otherwise at the top as part of the list
of ports.

3. I am most interested in those flavors of the MV Query language and
MV BASIC that are currently still being maintained and enhanced, next
interested in those where licenses are still being sold that include
these languages, then in those that led to the formation of those that
are currently being maintained and enhanced, then to all
implementations of those languages that were ever deployed, and
finally to all those ever written, even if not deployed.

To that end, I have passed along the list for the "currently
maintained and developed" MultiValue databases, asking if it was
accurate, and then this list at the other end of the spectrum (so to
speak) of those attempted that never got off the ground.

The interesting thing (to me) about this approach to the poster is
that it seems to pull in a lot of the information of interest to
others in the MV space too, even if they are not as interested in the
history of these two languages. Because of that, I would like to do a
better job of getting in the information that others would like to
see, while also trying to refine what is there and reflect what has
happened in the past decade when updating it. [Please note, I am still
allocating only a small amount of volunteer work time to this effort,
starting now so that I can try to get a new version out a decade after
the first -- if anyone would like to provide some additional resources
for this effort, such as a graphic designer, let me know.]

Thanks. --dawn

On 26 Sep, 00:28, dawn <dawnwolth... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
It doesn't strictly have a name but, if you want a term to use in
conversation, the obvious one would be QMQuery.

Re open source, the original open source version of QM is still out
there for exactly the purpose for which it was released (a sandbox for
developers to try ideas for possible mutual sharing of donations to
the QM project). As has been well documented over the years, the
community did not want to use the open source in this way. There are,
however, 419 registered users of the open source. We have no idea
whether any of them are doing anything useful. There are currently no
plans for a new source release.

Scarlett DME is a fork of the QM open source that is completely
independent of Ladybridge Systems. Again, we have no idea whether
anyone is doing anything with it.


Martin Phillips, Ladybridge Systems

I think it would be useful to list all of these partially-completed
implementations and diagram their roots in some fashion on the chart. Even
red-headed stepchildren are family members...

Ed

"Martin Phillips" <MartinPhillips (AT) ladybridge (DOT) com> wrote

On Sep 28, 6:37*am, "Ed Sheehan" <NOedsS... (AT) xmission (DOT) com> wrote:
BUT in a family of brunnette's, they stand out! And for what purpose?
If they didn't reach maturity, and have no user base ...? Does my
homebrew project from the 80's written is PASCAL count (though I did
have 1 user, but the brother in law stopped using it MANY years ago!)
Where do you draw the line? Anyone remember the DS Rabbit product (???
I'm guessing not, 'cause the "product" ended up being little more than
an idea that got floated around and marketed for a while, before the
money ran out ...