Displaying 'umlaut' character

#11

On 2010-09-23 03:13, Jürgen Exner wrote:

Quote:

Frank van Bortel<fbortel (AT) home (DOT) nl> wrote:

Apart from what I replied earlier, the correct way to encode
is of course "ö" (without the quotes...)

If that were true then I guess we wouldn't need Unicode and all the
gazillion other attempts to represent non-English letters.

Non-English? The trema (diaeresis) is often used: cooperate reenact
zoology Brontë naïve. (Umlaut diacritics are not.)

--
Ruud

#12

"Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+usenet (AT) xs4all (DOT) nl> wrote:

Quote:

On 2010-09-23 03:13, Jürgen Exner wrote:
Frank van Bortel<fbortel (AT) home (DOT) nl> wrote:

Apart from what I replied earlier, the correct way to encode
is of course "ö" (without the quotes...)

If that were true then I guess we wouldn't need Unicode and all the
gazillion other attempts to represent non-English letters.

Non-English? The trema (diaeresis) is often used: cooperate reenact
zoology Brontë naïve. (Umlaut diacritics are not.)

Quite right. Nevertheless it's still not a character found in the
English alphabet.

jue

#13

On 09/22/2010 06:35 PM, joel garry wrote:

Quote:

On Sep 22, 12:20 am, Frank van Bortel<fbor... (AT) home (DOT) nl> wrote:
On 09/22/2010 06:50 AM, dn.p... (AT) gmail (DOT) com wrote:

My aim is to display the ‘special’ (NON-Ascii) German character/
diacritic umlaut or diaresis correctly on a browser. The browser calls
a cgi perl-script which resides on a linux server. The browser which
calls the perl-script displays Vietnamese characters correctly (but
not the umlaut) without any special setting. The script sets NLS_LANG
variable to AMERICAN_AMERICA.UTF8 and uses utf8 module, but that’s
about it.

$ENV{'NLS_LANG'}='AMERICAN_AMERICA.UTF8';
Works for Vietnamese characters, but not with umlaut (ö).

But even before we get to a perl-script, perhaps the LC_CTYPE env
variable needs to be set correctly. From my windows laptop, if I
access Oracle through Oracle Query Server, I can see the umlaut. But
if I open a linux-window, initiate an sqlplus session, and run the
same SQL, I do not see the umlaut correctly. I have tried a few values
for the env variable LC_CTYPE (like iso_8859_1, en_US,
en_US.iso88591), but with no luck. The surprising thing is that
‘umalut’ is a muck-known alphabet, Vietnamese alphabets are less-
known. Yet the Vietnamese characters are being displayed correctly.

What settings should I use in a perl-script or for a linux-window to
see the umlaut correctly? Please advise.

Maybe this helps: (shameless self promotion)http://vanbortel.blogspot.com/2009/0...rs-part-i.html
Last part is here:http://vanbortel.blogspot.com/2010/0...s-part-iv.html

Thanks for that Frank, I'm always forgetting where I've seen the
excellent write-up.

It always need to be emphasized that using the wrong database
character set creates a ticking time bomb, as Oracle is so
sophisticated about automatic conversions in various circumstances.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.fastcompany.com/1690122/b...ckberry-google

Thanks for the thumbs up.

However - one thing I was trying to clarify,
is the fact that
* you do not store characters; you store code points
* there's no such thing as a wrong database character set
(a.k.a. there's always one way to screw up, at least!)

--

Regards,

Frank van Bortel

#14

On 09/22/2010 03:29 PM, Peter J. Holzer wrote:

Quote:

On 2010-09-22 08:13, Frank van Bortel<fbortel (AT) home (DOT) nl> wrote:
Apart from what I replied earlier, the correct way to encode
is of course "ö" (without the quotes...)

That's not *the* correct way, just *a* correct way. Encoding it in the
charset indicated in the Content-Type header or a meta tag is equally
correct (and preferrable in most cicumstances, IMHO).

hp

would you please read the HTML definition?

--

Regards,

Frank van Bortel

#15

On 2010-09-26 15:26, Frank van Bortel <fbortel (AT) home (DOT) nl> wrote:

Quote:

On 09/22/2010 06:35 PM, joel garry wrote:
On Sep 22, 12:20 am, Frank van Bortel<fbor... (AT) home (DOT) nl> wrote:
Maybe this helps: (shameless self promotion)http://vanbortel.blogspot.com/2009/0...rs-part-i.html
Last part is here:http://vanbortel.blogspot.com/2010/0...s-part-iv.html

Thanks for that Frank, I'm always forgetting where I've seen the
excellent write-up.

I disagree. It isn't excellent. It is at best didactically inept and at
worst dangerously wrong.

Quote:

Thanks for the thumbs up.

However - one thing I was trying to clarify,
is the fact that
* you do not store characters; you store code points

Nope. Of course from a very low-level point of view you only store
bytes. But those bytes have a meaning for Oracle - in the case of a
varchar2 field they mean characters, just as they mean floating point
numbers in a number field or dates in date field.

Quote:

* there's no such thing as a wrong database character set

The database character set is wrong if it isn't able to represent the
characters you want to store.

Quote:

(a.k.a. there's always one way to screw up, at least!)

There is also a way to not screw up. That would be the way most people
prefer.

hp

#16

["Followup-To:" header set to comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html]
On 2010-09-26 15:28, Frank van Bortel <fbortel (AT) home (DOT) nl> wrote:

Quote:

On 09/22/2010 03:29 PM, Peter J. Holzer wrote:
On 2010-09-22 08:13, Frank van Bortel<fbortel (AT) home (DOT) nl> wrote:
Apart from what I replied earlier, the correct way to encode
is of course "ö" (without the quotes...)

That's not *the* correct way, just *a* correct way. Encoding it in the
charset indicated in the Content-Type header or a meta tag is equally
correct (and preferrable in most cicumstances, IMHO).

would you please read the HTML definition?

I have. Various HTML definitions over the last 15 years, to be exact,
and they all agree with me. I haven't yet read most of HTML5, but I
don't expect it to depart from existing practice in this respect. Here
is the relevant part of HTML4:

http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/charset.html

hp

#17

On Sep 28, 11:58*am, "Peter J. Holzer" <hjp-usen... (AT) hjp (DOT) at> wrote:

Quote:

On 2010-09-26 15:26, Frank van Bortel <fbor... (AT) home (DOT) nl> wrote:

On 09/22/2010 06:35 PM, joel garry wrote:
On Sep 22, 12:20 am, Frank van Bortel<fbor... (AT) home (DOT) nl> *wrote:
Maybe this helps: (shameless self promotion)http://vanbortel.blogspot..com/2009/...rs-part-i.html
Last part is here:http://vanbortel.blogspot.com/2010/0...s-part-iv.html

Thanks for that Frank, I'm always forgetting where I've seen the
excellent write-up.

I disagree. It isn't excellent. It is at best didactically inept and at
worst dangerously wrong.

Example of dangerously wrong, please.

Most of what I've seen (including MOS) is worse, didactically.

Quote:

Thanks for the thumbs up.

However - one thing I was trying to clarify,
is the fact that
* you do not store characters; you store code points

Nope. Of course from a very low-level point of view you only store
bytes. But those bytes have a meaning for Oracle - in the case of a
varchar2 field they mean characters, just as they mean floating point
numbers in a number field or dates in date field.

* there's no such thing as a wrong database character set

The database character set is wrong if it isn't able to represent the
characters you want to store.

It's also wrong if it does store the characters you want to store, but
changes them later (the obvious example being 8 bit characters in 7-
bit character set, but there are more subtle examples).

Quote:

(a.k.a. there's always one way to screw up, at least!)

There is also a way to not screw up. That would be the way most people
prefer.

They may say they prefer it, but often they screw up anyways. Often
this involves not following the instructions.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
But it takes mass media to really screw up.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...d-be-vigilant/

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Displaying 'umlaut' character

comp.databases.oracle.misc comp.databases.oracle.misc

Re: Displaying 'umlaut' character - 09-23-2010 , 06:40 AM

Re: Displaying 'umlaut' character - 09-23-2010 , 08:25 AM

Re: Displaying 'umlaut' character - 09-26-2010 , 10:26 AM

Re: Displaying 'umlaut' character - 09-26-2010 , 10:28 AM

Re: Displaying 'umlaut' character - 09-28-2010 , 01:58 PM

Re: Displaying 'umlaut' character - 09-28-2010 , 03:22 PM

Re: Displaying 'umlaut' character - 09-28-2010 , 04:31 PM