Object Database Usecases, Case 1, Automotive

#61

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 11:56:21 +0100, Michael Wein <MichaelWein (AT) web (DOT) de>
wrote:

Quote:

But rather than trying to argue with those trolls, we should ignore them
and come back to what this group was supposed to be: a discussion forum
about object databases.

This group is about objects and databases. Relational databases
require objects, so they are also object databases.

Quote:

If someone wants to discuss the pros and cons of
ODBMS

OODBMS (or ON(etwork)DBMS) is a better term. ODBMS could mean OODMBS
or ORDBMS.

BTW ORDBMS is a bad synonym of RDBMS.

Quote:

(and at the moment, I can only see Bob Bad. and Alfredo Novoa),
he/she should propose comp.databases.object.advocacy and do his/her bashing
there.

I promise to join when you create the group. But for what you want
comp.databases.oodbms.advocacy would be a better name.

Regards
Alfredo

#62

"Michael Wein" <MichaelWein (AT) web (DOT) de> wrote

Quote:

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 08:50:04 -0500, Bob Nemec wrote:

Alfredo and Badour have added some (dark) colour to this forum;
irritating,
but at least it has got other people to post.

You are completely right with that perception. I haven't read ONE single
sensible contribution about ODMBS for the last couple of years from either
of them.

Apparently, you lack the skill to determine sense. Very few sensible
comments are made by anyone else. The vendors in this forum have proved
themselves unethical, dishonest and willfully ignorant.

#63

"Alfredo Novoa" <alfredo (AT) ncs (DOT) es> wrote

Quote:

"Andy Salnikov" <a_salnikov (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote

Would be interested to see any solution about persisteng this
graph in non-OO DBMS.

Could you explain what that code does?

It builds in-memory acyclic digraph whose leaf nodes (out-deg=0)

contain some user-defined objects. Edges of the graph have attached
property (name). This graph needs to be persisted, with the typical use
cases:

1) Given a path name like ("sys1","udt1") and some "root" node
it should be possible in a very effective way to traverse to the
child node and return the object associated with that node.

2) For a given node return the list the names of all out-edges.

Note that this thing is highly dynamic and constantly expanding.

Andy.

#64

"Bob Badour" <bbadour (AT) golden (DOT) net> wrote

Quote:

"Adrian Veith" <nospam (AT) veith-system (DOT) de> wrote in message
news:c14h44$s81$00$1 (AT) news (DOT) t-online.com...
Bob Badour schrieb:

"Jim Melton" <jim.melton (AT) lmco (DOT) com> wrote in message
Incivility is never justified.

Just such a dogmatic attitude is exactly what has allowed incompetent
doctors, pedophile priests and serial killing nurses to continue to
harm the
public simply by moving to a new location.

So the only way to expose wrong is with harsness and name-calling? I don't
buy it.

Quote:

are you saying, that using the wrong (in your eyes) technology is the
same as pedophile or murder

No, I am saying that spreading ignorance and misconception harms the
public.
An educated and informed person can make a rational choice to accept the
high costs of a primitive technology for specific reasons.

You have a very narrow definition of educated and informed. All of us have
different educational backgrounds and are informed of different things. What
you cannot seem to accept is that anyone would choose an ODBMS without being
an ignorant twit. Apparently, anyone who does not share your views on data
management cannot, by definition, be educated or informed.

Quote:

For instance, Jim works for an organization with extremely deep pockets on
projects that might affect national security. Given those parameters, he
might make a rational choice to use a primitive product lacking physical
and
logical independence if it is the only product available that can deliver
the physical structures he requires. The stakes are high enough in his
case
to shrug off the extraordinary costs.

Jim works for an organization with no deeper pockets than anyone else. And
Jim has developed applications (of the same ilk as the one he is currently
developing) that used RDBMS for data management. The "extraordinary costs"
you assert just are not there. If anything, we are more productive (and
certainly the applications are more performant) using the ODBMS.

Yes, this comes at a cost. Random ad-hoc queries are ill-supported. But that
has NEVER been a requirement in any application I've ever delivered.

As I have said repeatedly, there are some classes of applications for which
an ODBMS is better suited than an RDBMS. I do NOT think that an ODBMS should
be used for ALL applications.

If the reason for the above is because of the lack of physical and logical
independence (in both ODBMS and commercially available RDBMS), then so be
it.
--
<disclaimer>
Opinions posted are those of the author.
My company doesn't pay me enough to speak for them.
</disclaimer>
--
Jim Melton
Software Architect, Fusion Programs
Lockheed Martin IS&S
(303) 971-3846

#65

"Jim Melton" <jim.melton (AT) lmco (DOT) com> wrote

Quote:

"Bob Badour" <bbadour (AT) golden (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:BeGdnWckpLtS1KvdRVn-vA (AT) golden (DOT) net...
"Adrian Veith" <nospam (AT) veith-system (DOT) de> wrote in message
news:c14h44$s81$00$1 (AT) news (DOT) t-online.com...
Bob Badour schrieb:

"Jim Melton" <jim.melton (AT) lmco (DOT) com> wrote in message
Incivility is never justified.

Just such a dogmatic attitude is exactly what has allowed
incompetent
doctors, pedophile priests and serial killing nurses to continue to
harm the
public simply by moving to a new location.

So the only way to expose wrong is with harsness and name-calling? I don't
buy it.

are you saying, that using the wrong (in your eyes) technology is the
same as pedophile or murder

No, I am saying that spreading ignorance and misconception harms the
public.
An educated and informed person can make a rational choice to accept the
high costs of a primitive technology for specific reasons.

You have a very narrow definition of educated and informed.

No, the newsgroup has a narrow definition, which includes database
management.

Quote:

For instance, Jim works for an organization with extremely deep pockets
on
projects that might affect national security. Given those parameters, he
might make a rational choice to use a primitive product lacking physical
and
logical independence if it is the only product available that can
deliver
the physical structures he requires. The stakes are high enough in his
case
to shrug off the extraordinary costs.

Jim works for an organization with no deeper pockets than anyone else. And
Jim has developed applications (of the same ilk as the one he is currently
developing) that used RDBMS for data management. The "extraordinary costs"
you assert just are not there. If anything, we are more productive (and
certainly the applications are more performant) using the ODBMS.

Yes, this comes at a cost. Random ad-hoc queries are ill-supported. But
that
has NEVER been a requirement in any application I've ever delivered.

As I have said repeatedly, there are some classes of applications for
which
an ODBMS is better suited than an RDBMS.

What do you mean by ODBMS? Network model or relational model?

#66

Quote:

No, I am saying that spreading ignorance and misconception harms the public.

Do you ever consider if your mannerisms convey your concern for the
public?

Quote:

An educated and informed person can make a rational choice to accept the
high costs of a primitive technology for specific reasons.

As you have correctly emphasized all along, technologies are founded
on fundamentals. Some like you and Alfredo have wrongly concluded that
RDM is the most fundamental. Having arrived at your premature
conclusion, you have closed your minds to new ideas and carelessly
thrawted the efforts of others.

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Object Database Usecases, Case 1, Automotive

comp.databases.object comp.databases.object

Re: Don't feed the trolls (Was: Re: Object Database Usecases) (was: Object Database Usecases) - 02-20-2004 , 09:24 AM

Re: Don't feed the trolls (Was: Re: Object Database Usecases) (was: Object Database Usecases) - 02-20-2004 , 11:39 AM

Re: Object Database Usecases - 02-20-2004 , 04:33 PM

Re: Oh Bob was Re: Object Database Usecases - 02-20-2004 , 07:09 PM

Re: Oh Bob was Re: Object Database Usecases - 02-20-2004 , 07:33 PM

Re: Oh Bob was Re: Object Database Usecases - 02-20-2004 , 08:52 PM