Modify a record?

#31

Gordon Burditt wrote:

Quote:

I took the population in 1935 (127 million) and added all births
since then. That gives 389 million. What are the remaining 53 million
used for? I don't know, but possibilities include:
- immigrants
- taxpayer identification numbers used for corporations
These have a completely different format.
But they still come out of the same number pool, and a SSN may be (sometimes
MUST be) used in place of an EIN.

No, they do not. Corporate EIN's have a format such as 55-123456.

That's the wrong format. SSNs and EINs both have 9 digits.
xxx-xx-xxxx and xx-xxxxxxx. The dashes being in different places
is unlikely to make a difference since nobody bothers to store them.

Jerry, Gordon is correct and you are wrong. I just checked the EIN for
my chapter-S corp and it has nine digits. It is xx-1234567

Quote:

And
an SSN cannot be used "in place if an EIN".

Yes, they can, under the right conditions.

Agreed. There are limited circumstances where it can.

Quote:

However, a the owner of a
sole proprietorship can use his/her SSN instead of having to get a
separate EIN.

And the above is how. And they're stuck with using their SSN here
if the EIN isn't available on time for the due date of the forms.

It still remains that there's a spot on a form that can be correctly
filled in with either an EIN or a SSN. Now, how do you tell the
difference without looking up the particular number involved? (And
if as you claim they are drawn from different number spaces, you
can't necessarily tell even then.) Don't count on the dashes to help you.

An SSN cannot be used for a separate legal entity such as
a corporation or LLC.

How many databases in production use actually bother to store the
dashes of a SSN or EIN?

I never did. But I also store them as character strings because the
leading zeros are important.

Incidentally, there was an item on Slashdot yesterday titled "Social
Security Numbers Can Be Guessed", which indicates that the first 5
digits of the SSN can be guessed from birth date and birth place
with 44% accuracy (of a sample of 160,000 people, and on the first
try!) for people born between 1989 and 2003. I guess 1989 was the
first year they started requiring SSNs at birth.

Between 1970 and 1985 I taught a college course at night. I used to
look at the social security numbers on the roster and I was able to tell
the general geographic area that the person got the SSN from.

#32

sheldonlg wrote:

Quote:

Gordon Burditt wrote:
I took the population in 1935 (127 million) and added all births
since then. That gives 389 million. What are the remaining 53
million
used for? I don't know, but possibilities include:
- immigrants
- taxpayer identification numbers used for corporations
These have a completely different format.
But they still come out of the same number pool, and a SSN may be
(sometimes
MUST be) used in place of an EIN.

No, they do not. Corporate EIN's have a format such as 55-123456.

That's the wrong format. SSNs and EINs both have 9 digits.
xxx-xx-xxxx and xx-xxxxxxx. The dashes being in different places
is unlikely to make a difference since nobody bothers to store them.

Jerry, Gordon is correct and you are wrong. I just checked the EIN for
my chapter-S corp and it has nine digits. It is xx-1234567

Sorry - I dropped a digit. I didn't have my EINs handy, and I don't
have them memorized.

Quote:

And an SSN cannot be used "in place if an EIN".

Yes, they can, under the right conditions.

Agreed. There are limited circumstances where it can.

But in this case the IRS does NOT classify it as "in place of an EIN".
A very important LEGAL difference. I've had both sole proprietorships
and corporations. I do know the difference!

Quote:

However, a the owner of a sole proprietorship can use his/her SSN
instead of having to get a separate EIN.

And the above is how. And they're stuck with using their SSN here
if the EIN isn't available on time for the due date of the forms.

It still remains that there's a spot on a form that can be correctly
filled in with either an EIN or a SSN. Now, how do you tell the
difference without looking up the particular number involved? (And
if as you claim they are drawn from different number spaces, you
can't necessarily tell even then.) Don't count on the dashes to help
you.

An SSN cannot be used for a separate legal entity such as a
corporation or LLC.

How many databases in production use actually bother to store the
dashes of a SSN or EIN?

I never did. But I also store them as character strings because the
leading zeros are important.

Incidentally, there was an item on Slashdot yesterday titled "Social
Security Numbers Can Be Guessed", which indicates that the first 5
digits of the SSN can be guessed from birth date and birth place
with 44% accuracy (of a sample of 160,000 people, and on the first
try!) for people born between 1989 and 2003. I guess 1989 was the
first year they started requiring SSNs at birth.

Between 1970 and 1985 I taught a college course at night. I used to
look at the social security numbers on the roster and I was able to tell
the general geographic area that the person got the SSN from.

So?

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry Stuckle
JDS Computer Training Corp.
jstucklex (AT) attglobal (DOT) net
==================

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Modify a record?

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Re: Modify a record? - 07-07-2009 , 07:27 PM

Re: Modify a record? - 07-07-2009 , 10:27 PM