I am not sure about all this.

I have been using Ingres to make a living for 25 years and I am still notsure that the product is being properly marketed.
Things have improved since the advent of Ingres Corp but there are a lot? majority ? of IT professionals out there who.


have never heard of Ingres
are still writing big systems in 3GLs

are locked into MS - don't know about portability - or retrospective compatibility.

don't know that you can use Ingres with PHP - think that MySQL is the onlyweb database.

Don't understand that you can fill the DB with a well controlled 4GL andview it using web tools...... and that you don't have to use the equivalent of OR appserver / eclient to do this.

................
..............
Allan













Roy Hann <specially (AT) processed (DOT) almost.meat>
Sent by: info-ingres-bounces (AT) kettleriver...ting (DOT) com
08/02/2011 16:12


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Re: [Info-Ingres] Gartnerreckons Ingres is a challenger















Geo Victim wrote:

This is sensitive stuff and some of my acquaintances are among those who
have been "binned" as you put it. Your pseudonym and tonesuggest you
are one of them.

Looking at it as an outsider I see there is hiring going on to
fill specific positions, plus the VectorWise development team has just
been added to the payroll:
http://www.cwi.nl/news/2011/cwi-spin...es-corporation.

I hear a lot of stuff but I don't get updates on the headcount. It's
not obvious to me that there's been any net change. I'm sorry tosee
friends go but I'm glad to see the company hiring and reconfiguring
itself to aggressively pursue new technology. It's looking downright
vigorous to me.

I admit I never really followed geospatial. I suppose it was a business
decision. The projected revenue probably wasn't going to ramp up fast
enough to justify the spending. The owners have been investing pretty
freely lately but I'm sure there are limits.

Presumably all the work done to date is still out there and could be
continued by anyone who is minded to?

I don't understand this question.

That comparison is invidious.

Ingres Corp is adding VectorWise capabilities to Ingres. VectorWise,
clever though it is, needs Ingres in order to work, and it addresses
entirely different use cases than "classic" Ingres. VectorWise
complements Ingres and in fact is driving enhancements to Ingres.
VectorWise might be changing the development priorities within Ingres
Corp but it sure isn't resulting in neglect--quite the opposite. Hence
the improved placement in the Gartner square.

--
Roy

UK Ingres User Association Conference 2011 will be on Tuesday June 7 2011.
Put the date in your diary today.

Allan, there is nothing wrong in people using the tools and technologies
they are most comfortable with. If DeveloperX is about to work on a
ProjectX, (s)he will most likely chose MariaDB/MySQL simply because that
was the best combination since the early days. A good example why not
Ingres, for an example, is if DeveloperX has used PDO for years, and
wants a nice, clean, OO design for the ProjectX. PDO::Ingres is not yet
ready for production (it may never be), so PDO is out of option...
For the same reason people do 3GL, are locked to MS, and think MySQL is
the only database - simply put - it works for them, and they do not want
to change it.

A final hint for you: how many hosting companies offer an Ingres
installation?


--
dejan

dejan, Allans point was that because of the way ingres is marketed and
focused, the vast majority of developers have never heard of ingres and
ingres doesn't easily offer them attractive alternatives to competitor
products. Ingres corp seems primarily focussed towards govermental and
corporates sales of large installations rather than expanding into
development communities that are more fractured.

Given the history of ingres, and limited resources I can understand
that, but whether a development and advertising campaign that focusses
on the corporate world is best suited to growth, isn't so clear.

You are right about why developers and startups would choose to bypass
ingres as a database platform - basically a lack of commitment to key
technologies and a lack online hosting opportunity from hosting
providers (naturally except for more expensive hosting plans).

I think the vectorwise initiative is good, but still niche.

For many small companies, databases are a commodity and their
requirements are such that most databases will perform well enough for
their needs, so vectorwise isn't such an issue.

Will people really "get" Vectorwise? Is the speed incentive big enough
to suck people from the competition?

Be interesting to see how things pan out. Allan made some very valid
points.


--
ipauland

Ingres Forums wrote:

Count on it that I will always use what I know when I am at the PoC
stage. Happily for me Ingres also works for most live deployments of
the types of systems I work on. I have done one or two where Ingres
wasn't a good fit though. I hope that most people would do what I did
and look for something that is a good fit, rather than making do with
a substandard tool.

It's a chicken and egg problem. It would have been nice if the work had
been done years ago when the window first opened but we've moved on.

I bet you could get Ingres running on any hosting site in 10 minutes if
you wanted to. Maybe it'd save a few minutes if it was part of a
standard offering. One way to start would be to use SuSE Studio, click
the "Additonal Templates" link on the "Choose a Base Template" page;
Ingres is the first thing you see.

--
Roy

UK Ingres User Association Conference 2011 will be on Tuesday June 7 2011.
Put the date in your diary today.

Roy Hann wrote:

Someone has asked me where to find SuSE Studio. It's pretty easy to
guess or Google, but here's the link: http://susestudio.com

--
Roy

UK Ingres User Association Conference 2011 will be on Tuesday June 7 2011.
Put the date in your diary today.

Ingres Forums wrote:

Gartner thinks different. :-)

--
Roy

UK Ingres User Association Conference 2011 will be on Tuesday June 7 2011.
Put the date in your diary today.

Roy Hann;35793 Wrote:
Niche is the wrong word - I really meant that it'll be interesting to
higher-end clients where performance is critical and budgets available,
rather than the more mundane project where what we have now is perfectly
good.

Vectorwise is a good move.


--
ipauland

Speaking about hosting... I wonder what Ingres can do to make hosting
companies want to offer Ingres as well, in their packages? Maybe we (the
Ingres community) should talk to people who own hosting companies and
ask them this question? It will certainly increase the "visibility" of
Ingres...


--
dejan

I share Allan's thoughts.

At 12:55 AM 2/9/2011, you wrote:

Mine is a lonely community. In an area of 3.3 million people, as
far as I know, there are only 3
INGRES installations.



At 06:02 AM 2/9/2011, you wrote: