Leandro Pinto Fava wrote:
Paul,

My main attention is for the first one.

Even so, about your affirmation, where are these people? Are they
without a job right now? Why is this happening?

Maybe because the first issue. "Ingres is not supported by many packaged
applications, which is a key issue"

IMHO, this is one of the reasons why some companies don't choose Ingres.
And others are leaving Ingres because that.

I know some Ingres people who "changed" their focus in terms of product,
including me. My employer decided to change from Ingres to MSSQL.

If I look around (here in my country), I see some companies leaving
Ingres too.

I know Ingres Corp is doing an effort to address this. And I still hope
Ingres can get better market place than it has now.

Regards.

PS. Sorry if my english is bad.

Leandro

Leandro Pinto Fava wrote:

All you people who've suddenly popped up to piss and moan about Ingres
should go and take a look at the Ingres forums on www.ingres.com, where
you will find a seemingly endless stream of Ingres newbies. Maybe take
a look at http://newsletter.ingres.com/en/category/news too.

I must have imagined the sold-out IUA event last month.

--
Roy

UK Ingres User Association Conference 2010 will be on Tuesday June 8 2010
Go to http://www.iua.org.uk/join to get on the mailing list.

I'm not sure why this should be Ingres Corp responsibility. I guess plenty
of consultants have approached solution providers to say - "Hey, let me show
you how to support your application on Ingres, increase your market share
and save you money". I'd then be expecting Ingres Corp would provide the
support (marketing, education, tools) which would help that happen.

Often, in the last 5 years, I've seen Ingres/OpenROAD/Enterprise Access
based solutions implemented into SQL server shops either integrated into or
replacing current technology. It is being installed into top 100 companies
in Australia and overseas. And I have participated in one major
implementation which replaced SAP / Oracle.

Yesterday, I participated in a demonstration to a large multinational group.
We are proposing to completely replace their current systems - CRM, quoting,
financial, maintenance, rostering, T&A, payroll. The attendees, were
impressed and raised detailed questions about functionality but not once
asked about database, operating system or development language. They were
very interested in our other reference sites and also how easy it would be
to tailor our current offerings for their business.

A few years ago I spent some time at a state government (Oracle shop)
organisation assisting a department to implement significant multi user, MS
Access applications because their application and database people could not
respond quickly enough to business needs. It was against policy but the
business had no choice. The chosen solution was cheaper and quicker to
implement and solved the problems. well. ok. I hope you get my point.

I really do believe that if the application does a good job of addressing
the business needs cost effectively then it can help win over the technology
bigots.

What is the real problem then? Is it trying to get a foot in the door to an
organisation with a strict technical policy? Who is setting this policy? I
would hope the decision makers will respond to marketing, education and just
plain old user pressure. If you have a technology solution and it works
better faster cheaper than the competitors, who can argue with that in the
current climate?

Roy,

I got really frustrated since when we started the process to renew with Ingres Corp (two years ago).

I've been working with Ingres since 1995.

As an University, we HAD a "special" contract with CA. That contract gave us a permission/license to use all CA's products by 10 years with a low cost by month (it has ended).

We have a development team with skills in several program languages, including Openroad that "was" the main language used to build our core application (enrollment system). But now we are in process of migration to MSSQL.

Since I started work here at UNISC (in 1999), I've listen my boss saying:
-We have to leave Ingres and go to MSSQL or Oracle. Bla, bla, bla

And I was ever arguing:
-No, Ingres is better, it's cheaper and it's easy to use and to mantain, and it's doing its function very well. Good!

When a salesman who had/offers a sollution to us about others things that the university uses, they never bring a solution with Ingres as a choice to use as the DBMS, and we was obligated to use MSSQL, Oracle, MySQL, etc. And many solutions we are still searching or wanting, have MSSQL, Oracle or MySQL as a choice to use as the DBMS and not Ingres. We have to use other DBMS because that and Ingres was losing space here.

I was "wining" (a way to say) this discussion until the end of contract with CA. When Ingres Corp started to talk us about the pricing of support, we had bad news (comparing with others) and I should to surrender??? (I think this is the Word, or not??).

As I said, I hope Ingres will get its place (a good place). But here it is late. And I am seeing others going to the same way like my company.

I wish the number of newbies in the Ingres forum is a sign to shut up me.

Regards,

Leandro Fava
Setor de Informática - UNISC
+55 51 3717 7636


-----Original Message-----
From: info-ingres-bounces (AT) kettleriver...ting (DOT) com [mailto:info-ingres-bounces (AT) kettleriverconsulting (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Roy Hann
Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de julho de 2009 12:29
To: info-ingres (AT) kettleriverconsulting (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Info-Ingres] Forrester's Enterprise DBMS report

Leandro Pinto Fava wrote:

All you people who've suddenly popped up to piss and moan about Ingres
should go and take a look at the Ingres forums on www.ingres.com, where
you will find a seemingly endless stream of Ingres newbies. Maybe take
a look at http://newsletter.ingres.com/en/category/news too.

I must have imagined the sold-out IUA event last month.

--
Roy

UK Ingres User Association Conference 2010 will be on Tuesday June 8 2010
Go to http://www.iua.org.uk/join to get on the mailing list.


_______________________________________________
Info-Ingres mailing list
Info-Ingres (AT) kettleriverconsulting (DOT) com
http://www.kettleriverconsulting.com...fo/info-ingres

Leandro Pinto Fava wrote:

Two comments on that: first, if you were getting Ingres very nearly for
free from CA, you were getting a deal that Ingres Corp could never
repeat. It's not like Ingres Corp have jacked up the price of Ingres.

Second, I know for sure--because I have been present in meetings where
it has happened--that Ingres Corp will not lose an existing customer
over price. Deals can be done and your local salesmen should be
willing to meet you half way.

--
Roy

UK Ingres User Association Conference 2010 will be on Tuesday June 8 2010
Go to http://www.iua.org.uk/join to get on the mailing list.

I can confirm what Roy says. I come from the MySQL/Oracle world. My
company hired me and my colleague to work on a JAVA EE project based on
Ingres (9.x).

I did not want to participate in this discussion because it usually
ends like it indeed ended here - in flame wars. People use what they
find useful. I did not like Ingres at first, but when I learned what it
can do, and how, i started to like it. People who opt out Ingres quickly
probably have no idea about Ingres and its abilities.

Sure I miss some MySQL and many Oracle features, but considering what
kind of problems Ingres had in the past I am ready to wait little bit -
I am sure Ingres will soon have all things I miss.

Forrester's report shows that Ingres is still considered a serious,
enterprise-ready, SQL DBMS. That is why, in the first place, it is
important for Ingres community. End of story.

Kind regards.


--
dejan

I can only speak for the UK, but I believe similar schemes should be
available in other countries.

Ingres is available to qualifying UK educational institutions at a
substantial discount under the terms of the Chest Agreement between
Ingres and Eduserv. Ingres has been available through Eduserv & Chest
for many years, and Ingres Corp have chosen to continue the arrangement.
The agreement allows Ingres products to be used in teaching environments
as well as in 'back-office' type scenarios. Having realised what a great
product it is, the aim is for the students to go on and use it once they
are working.

Obviously, this is a long term plan, but the more colleges and
universities who sign up, the better it will be going forwards.

So if you're in a UK academic institution and you're not signed up to
the Chest Agreement, contact Eduserv for details.

If you're outside the UK, then push your Ingres rep. for details of any
local academic programs that may be in place.

Jim

Jim Callaghan, NEMEA Alliances Manager, Ingres Europe Ltd.


Roy Hann;26736 Wrote:

--
calja03

Hi Jim, nice to hear from you.

Its cool, but here I think it's late as I said.

We have a contract with MS (campus agreement). MSSQL is one of their products that are offered to us with a really low cost (really a great discount because we are a educational instituition).
We still have acquired CA's products with special discounts as well (Etrust, BrightStor, SCM, etc.)
Recently IBM came to us offering products starting with discount 60% from their price list.

Ingres Corp (Brazil) didn't offer nothing like this. Even we asking for that.
We had bad experience negotiating with Ingres Corp Brazil and specially with a person at Ingres Corp HQ.

Leandro Fava
Setor de Informática - UNISC
+55 51 3717 7636


-----Original Message-----
From: info-ingres-bounces (AT) kettleriver...ting (DOT) com [mailto:info-ingres-bounces (AT) kettleriverconsulting (DOT) com] On Behalf Of Ingres Forums
Sent: terça-feira, 14 de julho de 2009 08:08
To: info-ingres (AT) kettleriverconsulting (DOT) com
Subject: Re: [Info-Ingres] Forrester's Enterprise DBMS report


I can only speak for the UK, but I believe similar schemes should be
available in other countries.

Ingres is available to qualifying UK educational institutions at a
substantial discount under the terms of the Chest Agreement between
Ingres and Eduserv. Ingres has been available through Eduserv & Chest
for many years, and Ingres Corp have chosen to continue the arrangement.
The agreement allows Ingres products to be used in teaching environments
as well as in 'back-office' type scenarios. Having realised what a great
product it is, the aim is for the students to go on and use it once they
are working.

Obviously, this is a long term plan, but the more colleges and
universities who sign up, the better it will be going forwards.

So if you're in a UK academic institution and you're not signed up to
the Chest Agreement, contact Eduserv for details.

If you're outside the UK, then push your Ingres rep. for details of any
local academic programs that may be in place.

Jim

Jim Callaghan, NEMEA Alliances Manager, Ingres Europe Ltd.


Roy Hann;26736 Wrote:

--
calja03


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Info-Ingres (AT) kettleriverconsulting (DOT) com
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On 2009-07-14, Ingres Forums <info-ingres (AT) kettleriverconsulting (DOT) com> wrote:
No issue with that. I do like Ingres, and really the only thing I'd
say I miss from MySQL is sql-only authentication, which is useful for
web projects, but there's really nothing else to like for me about
MySQL, and plenty to like about Ingres. I'm just not too fond of the
open-source message. It's not untrue, but it's meaningless in this
case IMO, and there's plenty relevant to say about Ingres instead.

--
Emiliano