That was a given.

Its also important to point out that licenses will vary country by country due to differences in each country's laws. (There's also international law but lets not get in to this...)

OUT (Oracle Turkey) is trying to bully the guy. Right or wrong, getting in to a legal battle will mean big bucks, regardless of the country.

But hey! That's Oracle for ya.

__________________________________________________ _______________
The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/

No, not exactly.

The law isn't as simple as that.

First, many companies (Oracle and IBM included) put language in to their "contracts/shrink wrap/ warranties / employment agreement" that if they ever saw the light of day within a court of law they would be tossed out. (Trustme, I signed one with IBM... ;-)

Second, there's an issue of "Order of Precedence" of the contracts. As Madison points out, there's the underlying OTN blanket agreement and then the XE EULA.
The OTN agreement takes precedence unless there is language within the OTN that allows for further modifications. (I'll admit I did a first blush read and fell asleep.)
I don't believe the OTN does not allow for the XE EULA.

The point is that Oracle wants you to adopt their product and when you put it into production, you will get nailed.
They all do. Oracle is no more evil than IBM.






__________________________________________________ _______________
The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/

dcruncher4 (AT) aim (DOT) com wrote:
Mark is a VP and his ability to explain the facts of life to OUT is
far from worthless. What he writes here may not help you. What he
emails them directly may so I would suggest you contact him directly
and forward a copy of all communications you have received.

But lets keep the temperature down a bit for several reasons. First
because this is playing out in an Informix usenet group where it is
totally off-topic. Are you aware of comp.databases.oracle.misc? This
would be more appropriate there.

Second: Because so far you have posted, all over the internet, your
interpretation of what OUT sent you. It would be helpful to read the
full and complete text without editing or editorial comment. My
girlfriend was born in Ankara so the fact that the original is in
Turkish is not an issue. Put the doc on the internet and post a link to
it.

Third: Lets keep in mind that you may be misinterpreting what they
wrote. They may be misinterpreting the XE license. And until we hear
something official this is all quite possibly just a misunderstanding.

What I can tell you is that XE is being used all over the planet to
teach Oracle courses with the active encouragement of Oracle management.

So lets be a bit patient, it is after all a holiday week, and see what
comes of this in the next week to ten days.

Might I suggest a glass of Raki until we hear something official? <g>
--
Daniel A. Morgan
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group
www.psoug.org

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:

That's my guess.

Or it might just be the actions of a single individual without the
knowledge of management. To paint an entire corporation based on what
you have to work with ... one incomplete side of the story ... is
remarkably premature.

Has the concept of asking questions and obtaining the full story before
jumping to a conclusion been completely lost? I doubt you make decisions
about your databases based on such flimsy information.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group
www.psoug.org

dcruncher4 (AT) aim (DOT) com wrote:
And you are 100% premature.

So far what you have is a communication from low-level Oracle employee
who might be incorrect in their interpretation. Calm down, contact Mark
directly, and see if you can clear it up.

If you start off with the attitude you are expressing here I can
understand why someone might have asked you to cease and desist.
Consider displaying aptitude rather than attitude.
--
Daniel A. Morgan

Gee DA Maroon,

Its really neat that a VP from Oracle is actually taking the time to post here.

LOL...

The point that started this discussion is that there is no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to the database market.
(Unless you're talking JavaDB/Derby)

Mark isn't Oracle legal and while there's a lot of noise about their XE EULA, that's all it is , noise.

You get on Oracle's radar and they will do what they want.

Why? Cause you have several competing agreements that mean you have to spend major bucks on a legal team which most people can't afford.
And of course the outcome isn't guaranteed.

So going full circle, no license is going to let you do whatever you want with the product, unless its an Apache license. Their terms are extremely liberal.


__________________________________________________ _______________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.as...mtextlink1_dec

So Da Maroon,

Are you saying that OUT doesn't have the authority to handle this situation? Hmmm, I don't think so.
Are you saying that OUT didn't talk to their regional attorneys before sending a cease and desist letter?
I don't think so.

Just goes to show you why you can't trust Oracle. Even when its in writing.

__________________________________________________ _______________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.htm...arelife_122007

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:

Amazingly enough we may have finally found a single point of agreement.

But given that Oracle is a US corporation operating under the laws in
multiple jurisdictions your legal assessment is incorrect at least as
it would apply in the US.

The statements of a corporate officer may not change the wording of a
contract. But they can be used to render it unenforceable.

So far no one has seen the actual communication sent to the OP. So far
no one has heard an official response from Oracle. It is New Year's Eve.
Give it a break for a week and lets see what happens.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)

Yes, but that doesn't change the fact that Oracle as a database is still a piece of crap when compared to Informix. ;-)



__________________________________________________ _______________
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
http://www.windowslive.com/share.htm...arelife_122007

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:

And with that childish schoolyard level of maturity you think you
will get a response?

You did.

I kill filed you on all of my personal email accounts.

You remind me, and likely those employed by IBM, of a quote from
William Penn's Fruits of Solitude:

"Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders, than from the
arguments of it opposers."

Good day sir.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)