RE: ouch, that hurts

Interesting koolaid follow up to that from the fellow who used to hang out
here and at one point claimed something along the lines of no ties to the
oracle product:

Daniel A. Morgan
Oracle Ace Director & Instructor
University of Washington
damor...@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group

Wonder what ever happened to him, I haven't seen any of his love notes for
quite some time, oh right, the killfile...

cheers
j.

(replace j with x to respond)

-----Original Message-----
From: informix-list-bounces (AT) iiug (DOT) org
[mailto:informix-list-bounces (AT) iiug (DOT) org]On Behalf Of dcruncher4 (AT) aim (DOT) com
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 12:20 PM
To: informix-list (AT) iiug (DOT) org
Subject: ouch, that hurts


http://groups.google.com/group/comp....g/7b3666a3c850
bf84?dmode=source

_______________________________________________
Informix-list mailing list
Informix-list (AT) iiug (DOT) org
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Doesn't hurt Informix or DB2.
Oracle is such a "beautiful" company to deal with....
We had SAP/Informix and SAP/Oracle.
We had never touched DB2.
In the last 6 months we moved the above SAP installs to DB2 9 LUW.
..
SAP may have pushed us from Informix, but we voluntarily left Oracle.
..
..
..
..
(any opinion in this statement is mine, not my employers)
..
..
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Subject: RE: ouch, that hurts
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:02:09 -0600
From: NormaJean.Sebastian (AT) tellabs (DOT) com
To: dcruncher4 (AT) aim (DOT) com; informix-list (AT) iiug (DOT) org

Doesn't hurt Informix or DB2.
Oracle is such a "beautiful" company to deal with....
We had SAP/Informix and SAP/Oracle.
We had never touched DB2.
In the last 6 months we moved the above SAP installs to DB2 9 LUW.
.
SAP may have pushed us from Informix, but we voluntarily left Oracle.
.
.
.
.
(any opinion in this statement is mine, not my employers)
.
NJ afraid to state her opinion? :-P

Oracle has a lot of customers and according to the post that datacruncher referenced,
is behaving like IBM did not too many years ago.

I am amazed at the issues in 10.
But then again. Anyone remember IDS 6.x ? ;-)
Perhaps there's a parallel, only that Informix didn't force everyone on to 6 from 5.

(Somehow I do imagine that people will miss the point I'm trying to make...;-)

-G


__________________________________________________ _______________
The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:

Subject: RE: ouch, that hurts
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:02:09 -0600
From: NormaJean.Sebastian (AT) tellabs (DOT) com
To: dcruncher4 (AT) aim (DOT) com; informix-list (AT) iiug (DOT) org

Doesn't hurt Informix or DB2.
Oracle is such a "beautiful" company to deal with....
We had SAP/Informix and SAP/Oracle.
We had never touched DB2.
In the last 6 months we moved the above SAP installs to DB2 9 LUW.
.
SAP may have pushed us from Informix, but we voluntarily left Oracle.
.
.
.
.
(any opinion in this statement is mine, not my employers)
.
NJ afraid to state her opinion? :-P

Oracle has a lot of customers and according to the post that
datacruncher referenced,
is behaving like IBM did not too many years ago.

I am amazed at the issues in 10.
But then again. Anyone remember IDS 6.x ? ;-)
Perhaps there's a parallel, only that Informix didn't force everyone
on to 6 from 5.

(Somehow I do imagine that people will miss the point I'm trying to
make... ;-)

Hey! I LIKED ODS 6.01! Besides, it wasn't nearly the debacle that IDS
7.10 - 7.12 or 9.10-9.20 were!

It was 7.11 that originally turned folks at my former employer off to
Informix. I had them all won over using 6.01, then we upgraded to 7.11
(and quickly to 7.12) and WHAM! Bug city.

Art S. Kagel
Oninit

Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:22:46 -0500
From: art (AT) oninit (DOT) com
To: im_gumby (AT) hotmail (DOT) com
CC: normajean.sebastian (AT) tellabs (DOT) com; dcruncher4 (AT) aim (DOT) com; informix-list (AT) iiug (DOT) org
Subject: Re: ouch, that hurts

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:
[SNIP]

(Somehow I do imagine that people will miss the point I'm trying to
make... ;-)

Hey! I LIKED ODS 6.01! Besides, it wasn't nearly the debacle that IDS
7.10 - 7.12 or 9.10-9.20 were!

It was 7.11 that originally turned folks at my former employer off to
Informix. I had them all won over using 6.01, then we upgraded to 7.11
(and quickly to 7.12) and WHAM! Bug city.

Art S. Kagel
Oninit

Well I think you were in the beta program since Online 6.x never went GA (if my memory serves me.)

I believe that there were some major architecture changes.

Even with the acquisition of Illustra, there wasn't a forced migration.
And yeah it took them a while to make things work right.
IDS 11 vs IDS 7.31 vs IDS 9.x? Which one would you want?
(Assuming that IDS 11 is pretty much stable...)

Informix as a whole didn't have an arrogant culture like IBM or Oracle. (And yes IBM's culture is still *very* arrogant. Sorry Serge, but get out of the lab and spend time in S&D or IGS ;-)

If you treat your customers like crap, pretty soon the cost of migration isless than the cost of doing business.

You do have to give Oracle some credit. They've done a superb job of brain washing their customers.

__________________________________________________ _______________
The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/

If you treat your customers like crap, pretty soon the cost of
migration is less than the cost of doing business.
You do have to give Oracle some credit. They've done a superb job of
brain washing their customers.

agreed on both points.
..
IBM did a pretty good job brainwashing me on DB2, but i can say all my
IBM contacts have hung in here with me every step of the way, and you
know i am just the sweetest person to deal with (please don't fall out
of your chair laughing)... as a result i have a great relationship with
IBM starting with my main sales guy.
..
informal oracle support (the forums and such) is very good (just like
our informal informix support).... main oracle sales guy couldn't see
past the dollar signs, but on occassion when i snuck around him the tech
support people on sales side were good. unfortunately i had to sneak
around sales to get to the brains.
..
IBM put the brains right on the line for me. i have not been
dissapointed, frustrated at times cuz it's not informix, but not
dissapointed in IBM support. (I am sure I frustrate IBM at times...)
..
i have no koolaid, blue or other, i don't even like koolaid... i was
just very fortunate my boss let me help in the decision.
..
..
..
================================================== ==========
The information contained in this message may be privileged
and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee
or agent responsible for delivering this message to the
intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reproduction,
dissemination or distribution of this communication is strictly
prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
please notify us immediately by replying to the message and
deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Tellabs
================================================== ==========

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:

Informix as a whole didn't have an arrogant culture like IBM or Oracle.
(And yes IBM's culture is still *very* arrogant. Sorry Serge, but get
out of the lab and spend time in S&D or IGS ;-)
What is IGS? That's like two(?) name changes ago! ;-)

I think you need to get out more yourself...

The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an
Xbox 360 Console. Get it now!
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/
Subliminal message?

Cheers
Serge

--
Serge Rielau
DB2 Solutions Development
IBM Toronto Lab

Sebastian, Norma J. wrote:

IBM put the brains right on the line for me.
See Ian, THAT's why they don't let me out more often.

I'd scare NJ into Sybase or something...

--
Serge Rielau
DB2 Solutions Development
IBM Toronto Lab

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:



--
publictimestamp.org/ptb/PTB-2182 ripemd320 2008-01-03 06:00:04
BBFBE7687C13285702596A06FF3CC7F26EB071F19A1682C50A AB15CF7B127270F008E9
3F5F020A4

Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:22:46 -0500
From: art (AT) oninit (DOT) com
To: im_gumby (AT) hotmail (DOT) com
CC: normajean.sebastian (AT) tellabs (DOT) com; dcruncher4 (AT) aim (DOT) com;
informix-list (AT) iiug (DOT) org
Subject: Re: ouch, that hurts

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:
[SNIP]

(Somehow I do imagine that people will miss the point I'm trying to
make... ;-)

Hey! I LIKED ODS 6.01! Besides, it wasn't nearly the debacle that IDS
7.10 - 7.12 or 9.10-9.20 were!

It was 7.11 that originally turned folks at my former employer off to
Informix. I had them all won over using 6.01, then we upgraded to 7.11
(and quickly to 7.12) and WHAM! Bug city.

Art S. Kagel
Oninit

Well I think you were in the beta program since Online 6.x never went GA
(if my memory serves me.)

OnLine Dynamic Server 6.00.UE1 was the first and basically only release
of ODS 6.x. Version 7.00 was, AFAIK, only available on Sequent; 7.10
was the GA version of 7.00 for other platforms, with extra fixes, etc.

I believe that there were some major architecture changes.

Slight understatement. OnLine 5.x has an sqlturbo process for each
separate user connection. ODS 6.x and all later versions use the
Dynamic Scalable Architecture, DSA, which has multi-threaded server
where a fixed number of processes deals with all client sessions. This
required changes in the connectivity (no longer using pipes to talk to
the server) too, hence the introduction of ASF - Association Services
Facility - to connect to the database. It was, not coincidentally, at
this time that the size of the ESQL/C client-side library grew enormously.


--
Jonathan Leffler #include <disclaimer.h>
Email: jleffler (AT) earthlink (DOT) net, jleffler (AT) us (DOT) ibm.com
Guardian of DBD::Informix v2007.0914 -- http://dbi.perl.org/