I think you're both right.

As a real 'true' SMB, I am completely uninterested in the other products besides
Informix. I wouldn't have time for Websphere, even if it were free. And I don't
see Websphere used anywhere outside of big shops. I am focused only on Informix
and Linux business solutions. As a matter of fact, if I have a web-based opportunity
I would certainly not use any of IBM's web products simply because they are not
applicable in the broader market, only in big gigantic corps where they actually
have people using that crap. You wouldn't use it outside of a gigantic corp so
it's a moot point.

As a true SMB I understand my peers in the same space as Neil suggested. That means
these kinds of critters choose the path of least resistance, and cost, just like big
shops do. Because they are smaller scale, they can also take advantage of a lot of
the products that are great for small scale, such as MySQL. Hello! MySQL is downloaded,
installed, and run, done. It's up to me at this point to offer professional services
that cater to this software. That's where I make my money. If Informix is a download
just like MySQL, and binary-only, no source, that would be just fine. The caveat is
support, you get what you pay for. I think it would be pretty easy for me to sell a
real support contract to just about any SMB I work with for Informix support, and I
get a commission for it. That's the way it should work.

I think if somebody told me I could just get Informix for say $99 USD, as the only
software package, as an IBM Partner, I'd be on board, plop down my $99, make a sale
for IBM, develop applications without the damn timebomb, and stop complaining. After
all if there are 8 products in the grab bag for $800 and I only need one, then that's
$100 right? If I want DB2 I don't even have to pay anything last I checked.

-t-


Neil Truby wrote:

Eric,

I think you missed my point.

In the IBM sales world, you have artificial boundries that make up your
territory.

So lets say you support the entertainment industry in NY,NY. You have a
client who has its IT operations in central Indiana, a different region.

You as the sales team have responsibility and credit for all sales to that
operation since their HQ is in your dog patch. That means that you routinely
will have to hop a plane and visit that location. If they have any questions
or support problems, you handle them.

The local reps and IT specialists will not get engaged since the account
isn't in their "territory".

This is what I mean by artificial boundries.

Now take that to the universities. There's a seperate group that handles
them.

When you have a brand specific "assault team". That could be comming from
the labs and would be yet a different group.

Some are cross matrixed, some are not.

Does this make sense?




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Danny boy, if I wanted a free version of Rational's app dev tool, I'd pick
up Eclipse. :-P

But you never did make a clear and concise point. There are tools that are
available for free and without support. Like Derby. (Oh wait, IBM promises
support for Cloudscape until 2008) But you have to pay for that support. ;-)

And back to the main point. For $800.00 you get access to a lot of software.
What do you get from Microsoft ?

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i still miss the day i used elm and sendmail.... that always worked,
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even using 2400 bd lines....
for reading and writing emails is lotus hoax a real pain in the
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Superboer.

Wow!
Here's the answer.
IBM wants you to drink the kool-aid.

You want to develop for IDS? $800.00
Too much? How about for that same $800.00 you can also have the latest
release of RAD?
Still too much? How about access to Clearcase?

Oh and note: This also means that you get support with it.

Now if you say "No thanks, I use Eclipse. And I use an open sourced version
of CVS. And I use Apache and JBoss."

My response? Good. Then if you want to get a developers copy of IDS and
phone support, its $800.00.

Think about this. Your corporations, even SMBs pay more per month for their
internet connection.

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Timmy,

A true SMB doesn't have an IT Staff.
They want a solution and dont care about what drives it, as long as they can
afford the solution.

But that's not what the developers program is about.

Its about delivering solutions to the marketplace.

The $800 pays for access to both the software and the right to make support
calls.

Again TANSTAAFL.

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take a look at the whole partnerworld value package program

its not just the software you get for your money

I don't know the whole program but there is a significant amount of
education material in the Virtual Innovation centre, I think there are
educaton packages available, there is you you pass we pay program,
campaign designer

Ian Michael Gumby said:
Yes, but where is the Informix student schmoozing?


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Thanks Gumpster.

We know what a 'true' SMB is, so let's all move along on that one.

The way I and apparently others who don't want to spend $800 see it is
that Informix is seen by IBM as just another app, part of a collection
We don't want the collection, we just want the Informix stack.

What I'm saying is that if IBM had smart people beyond the lab, and the
folks that develop the product, they would have a REAL developer program
specifically targeted at Informix developers. There is an understanding
that I think IBM is missing here, that Informix developers typically
work with best-of-breed products, rather than a single-stack of software
from one vendor. I couldn't give a monkeys' left ass cheek about Clearcase,
or Websphere, or any of the other crap software that IBM pushes out to big
companies. I don't know of any small companies that would actually use that
shyte. As to resources to help me, I have c.d.i., and if I want tech support I
can pay for it. But let's not lose the point, Informix needs its own
developer program. There's enough Informix components alone to work without
having to know about any of the other crap that IBM sells. In my 20+ years
of working with Informix I never used any of IBM's stuff except maybe Tivoli,
and even at that I had a backup dude to work with it, and make it work.

I'd rather see my $800 go towards a support contract specifically for Informix,
as an annual maintenance contract. And still, I'd rather not spend $800 when
I can spend less on other competing products, and still make money for my
business.

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:

Well there's two price points... one is 2K the other 800. The 2K supposedly
has some training involved.

While DA Maroon would like to think that I drank the IBM cool-aid, I havent.
I'm just pointing out the relatively low cost of entry in to the IBM world.

You can go cheeper if you join the IIUG. There's a "free" but limited
verison of the software which should help you get accquainted with the
majority of the product. (No Replication, and limits the number of users.)
But for a testbed and alpha development work, it should be sufficient.

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