Ian Michael Gumby said:
He's not talking about principals. He's talking about principles.

Au contraire, $800 is an awful lot of money for something that is *FREE*
.... p

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If you are only looking at a database I agree the $800 can be argued
as a lot of mony compared to other database vendors that offer a free
database

IBM is not just a database vendor. The $800 gets you access to all of
IBMs software catalog across all brands of SWG.

I guess it depends if you want to move out of your database are of
specialisation or want to have access to a much broader spectrum of
products.

Uhm... $800 just for IDS is a friggin *steal*.

But yes, to your point, there's some other goodies worth having too. DB2?
:-P
Naw just kidding. Lotus Notes? Rational product line? Websphere's products?

Yeah, lots to play with.



-G

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Ian Michael Gumby said:
Only if you're a masochist.

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"I'm astonished anyone pays real money for this crap."
-- Cosmo

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Now that you've all worked it out amongst yourselves... :-)

There isn't much of IBM's stack of software that I'd really be interested
in. Most if not all of what I'm involved in has nothing to do with IBM
software. Most of IBM software is for big companies with big IT shops that
waste a lot of money and time on a lot of inefficient time wasting crap that
only big companies can pay for. Hat's off to IBM for helping these big
companies blow money out the window. Maybe someday I'll be able to provide
them with more software they can really blow money on, but for now I'm not
interested in that.

I'm really interested in a database product that can help me develop applications
that may or may not be used by a big or little company. Everything I work on scales
up or down for size of users, etc. So I don't work typically with software or develop
applications that only work for big companies. I'm sure there are plenty of people
out there that do work with those other IBM products, but I'm not one of them.

In the meantime, IBM has proven time and again, --statistically-- that they really
don't plan on doing anything with IDS other than a press release now and then,
and some dry web pages with no life or creativity or innovation in them. IBM
just sucks, plain and simple. When I see a real developer program specifically
targeted for Informix developers with current content, and life to their web
site that doesn't look like one of those unattended robot web sites then I'll
believe that IBM is really serious about developing Informix beyond Walmart
and other big gigantic companies. I don't think they have the personnel on the
Informix side to do what I'm talking about simply because most of the people
they have are not experienced enough with databases, only with press releases,
and certainly they don't have any marketing people at all for Informix. So I'm
pretty certain the next big release of IDS will be a big nothing. I'm basing it
on statistics, not emotion. I will be 100% right, you can count on it.

-t-


Ian Michael Gumby wrote:

Well I could have mentioned Tivolli products ... :-P

But Notes isn't that bad compared to some alternatives ...

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The fact is, Poet, £1,350 *is* a lot of money to spend on getting a
supported and un-bombed version of Informix. Yes, you get a lot of other
stuff as well but for an SMB, wanting to specialise on a very limited number
of products as SMBs must do to survive, the addiotnal products are of
limited value. £1,350 for the "Value Package" is a sh*tload of cash, full
stop.

As was pointed out my another correspondent, IBM's head honcho is currently
extolling the virtues of the SMB market. And what kind of Business Partner
is best able to address SMBs empathetically? Business Partners that are
themselves SMBs, surely? And the fact remains that the "Value Package"
discriminates very strongly indeed against small companies and in favour of
the big, volume resellers.

Ian Michael Gumby wrote:

I want some of what you've been drinking. You've got to be kidding.
Why would someone pay $800 for what they can get from a competitor
for a fraction of the cost.

http://oraclestore.oracle.com/OA_HTM...RE&language=US
Scroll down to Oracle Standard Edition One
Click on the drop down and choose "Named User Plus Perpetual."
I see $149 and adding 15% for full support is still less than $200.
Do the math.

Your claim that it is less than what others charge does not compare
well with reality.
--
Daniel A. Morgan

Neil Truby wrote:

And £1,349 more than any student is going to pay.
--
Daniel A. Morgan
University of Washington
damorgan@x.washington.edu (replace x with u to respond)
Puget Sound Oracle Users Group
www.psoug.org

Which brings up a very good point. Students.

Microsoft and others know too well the value of getting their product
in the hands of the young. This is the time that shapes their opinions,
most likely for the rest of their careers. That guy from Facebook was
on a morning show the other day, was he even 25 years old? He has
already made his mind up on what technology is important, and other
people like him will be the ones that shape this market for the future.
Working from the top down as IBM is doing isn't going to work for the
long term, it just shows a complete lack of innovation in the market.

DA Morgan wrote: