In article <1gyx1gr.1vpyn9q1kj5400N%lynn (AT) NOT-semiotics (DOT) com>,
lynn (AT) NOT-semiotics (DOT) com (Lynn allen) wrote:

My only "productivity killer" is when the fool the database is being
created for keeps changing their mind what they actually want. (

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

In article <300620050848275994%helpful_harry (AT) nom (DOT) de.plume.com>,
helpful_harry (AT) nom (DOT) de.plume.com says...
Ah... so the feature you most want in FM8 is new customers (and
better ones too)

Helpful Harry <helpful_harry (AT) nom (DOT) de.plume.com> wrote:

Sorry, not even FMI can help you with that.

Lynn Allen
--
Allen & Allen Semiotics www.semiotics.com
FSA Associate Filemaker Design & Consulting

In article <MPG.1d2cbcfbe95f0724989baa@shawnews>, 42
<nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote:

Well, FileMaker Inc could add excellent Artifical Intelligence and
Future Prediction so that it can work out what they REALLY want rather
than what they say they want. That would be very useful. )


Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Helpful Harry wrote:
place?
Bignoel

In article <42c34924$1 (AT) quokka (DOT) wn.com.au>, Bignoel
<bignoel (AT) myplace (DOT) net.au> wrote:

Nope. It's that they don't know what they want, they just want a
database to do it because it looks good on the business plan ... or
they want a database to do this and then realise that it would be
better to do that instead or as well ... or they INSIST on the database
working "this" slow and awkward way when I know it would suit them
better to do it another way ... or ...

But it's up to them. They're paying for it (sort of) and I just havce
to waste the hours making it only to have to remove it later.

Management - who needs 'em? \




Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)

Helpful Harry <helpful_harry (AT) nom (DOT) de.plume.com> wrote:

In Harry's defense, plenty of clients behave the way he describes. They
literally do NOT know what they want when they start out.

It can be because they don't have a good grasp of their own business
processes, so they can't adequately describe the business rules that
need to be embodied in the software. Or they don't have the right people
involved in the project. The managers who are providing the specs are
out of touch with the little people who do the work ("oh, we haven't
done it that way in years, it didn't work. Now we do it *this* way")

Or maybe the client thinks they only need a small part of their business
managed by the software, only to find out that in order to DO that one
part, several other areas are affected and must also be accommodated in
order to make it work.

I've encounted all of these and more. The most frequent symptom of this
is that during design review, the client says.."that's not what I meant
(or wanted). I want *THIS*."
Harry, as you get more experienced (not that you aren't already) and
have a more reliable income stream, it gets a bit easier not to allow
clients to wander where they ought not. I've told clients that I *won't*
do certain things they thought they wanted, either because doing them
would unfavorably impact performance, data integrity, or user
experience, or because it would be a waste of their money. Of course,
if I wanted to keep said clients, I've done it in a very tactful way,
and backed everything up with reasoned arguments. I find the bottom line
to be the reason that carries the most weight.

I've also fired clients, for various reasons, including but not limited
to slow pay, refusal to invest (the "let's just spend pennies on
patching ill-designed and unstable files instead of rebuilding as would
be proper" approach), and being difficult to work with or impossible to
please. Inviting a client out the door can be a liberating experience,
and at least in my market, there's no shortage of work. Last week alone
I got three new business calls I had to refer out.

Don't blame Harry for the shortcomings of clients. We've all had 'em. If
ANYONE has a client who can describe perfectly, the first time, exactly
what they want and then recognize that *that's* what they got when you
it's delivered, I challenge you to produce them!

Lynn Allen
--
Allen & Allen Semiotics www.semiotics.com
FSA Associate Filemaker Design & Consulting

OK Harry,
I'm a film maker and a graphic designer. I get people telling me 'I
don't know what i want but i will know it when I see it!"

How frustrating is that. Here I am a talented artist sitting with some
talentless moron who can't even visualize what it is they want.

So then I go into listening mode. I want to know and I have to wheedle
it out of them spoonful at a time, not what they want but what they
need. Two completely different things. It takes time and I hate them and
the process but at the end, they get what they really 'wanted' but
didn't know it and I don't waste my time.

I use a variety of tools to accomplish this. Mind maps are an excellent
device. I helps me see clearly where the client is and where I fit into
the picture. And sometimes, I don't fit and I can see that a better
solution doesn't involve me at all. So be it.

I get them to draw too. "Show me what this page looks like." Or draw the
action for this scene etc. Amazing what comes out.

What I find is that most clients don't get listened too as people let
alone clients so please take the time. If you don't get the job at least
you'll save yourself some hate for the day.

BTW this works for Australians, I haven't tried it with Americans but
overall i find Americans shy and reserved behind the bluster and
over-the-top enthusiasm.

Bignoel

Lynn allen wrote:
Sorry to sound like I was having a go at Harry. I could sense the
frustration he fells and it was that that I was trying to suggest and
alternative. Who needs angst in their life when with the right tool and
a bit of time it can be avoided?

Bignoel

In article <42c47789$1 (AT) quokka (DOT) wn.com.au>, Bignoel
<bignoel (AT) myplace (DOT) net.au> wrote:
No "angst" or frustration here (well, except one fool I often wish I
could get rid of). I actually pulled out of the "rat race" nearly ten
years ago and I now work "part-time" for myself doing all sorts of Mac
work, mainly for community organisations and individuals for cheap /
free who otherwise would be able to afford it. )

Helpful Harry
Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o)