On 3/2/2011 9:01 PM, Martin Τrautmann wrote:

I did register and read. It essentially says to find someone who is
certified and who is an FBA member.

It also says to find a company that is an FM certified trainer, which I
would agree with if the one person who was certified is the same one who
will be working on your database...but of course that person is usually
more involved in training then they are in development.

And then it tries to say that hiring a firm with more developers is
better than hiring someone who is working on their own. There are pros
and cons for a customer in going either way. Yes, a larger firm may be
able to better serve you in an emergency, but for ongoing development I
have seen situations where there are often multiple people working on a
system, none or one of whom are actually very familiar with a customer's
particular database or company processes and workflow. This often leads
to things getting done incorrectly because there is no one person
responsible. Also, larger firms generally charge more per hour, and
they are very careful that they log and bill every minute spent -- on
the phone with a customer, putting together an estimate, every second of
development time, bringing an associate up to speed, etc. This
combination of a higher hourly rate and increased time spet results in
often much higher bills.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Howard Schlossberg
FM Professional Solutions, Inc. Los Angeles

FileMaker Certified Developer
Associate Member, FileMaker Business Alliance

The advantage that comes with a firm with several developers, is often moreexpertize in multiple technologies.

The pricing thing depends a lot on the firm/developer. There has been a lot of changes recently with the philosophy toward pricing. Value Pricing vsHourly Billing...oh my, the debate is entertaining. Plus, to at least some extent, you get what you pay for. Not meaning a developer charging more equals a better solution, but all solutions are not created equal. Man, the stories I could tell. LOL

In article
<f5119839-a863-416b-8a5c-0c416344b0ca (AT) glegroupsg2000goo (DOT) googlegroups.com

Yes and no. A lot of http://thedailywtf.com/ concerns database
developers with "expertize" in "mulitple technologies". Yes, well...

On 3/3/2011 9:05 PM, Josh Ormond wrote:

Josh --

What I say about pricing and the value of larger companies obviously
doesn't apply to all firms. In fact, some of my best friends are
FileMaker developers with large firms of their own!

As I said, there are pros and cons to large over small or vice versa. I
agree that you get what you pay for -- higher hourly rates don't
necessarily mean more expensive in terms of project price or long-term
value. But I have had customers come to me and come BACK to me after
being with larger, well-respected FileMaker firms, and their complaints
are generally centered around a feeling of 'lack of attention' from the
large firm, which manifests itself in a number of ways.

As for the "value pricing" model, I have been in on both in-person and
online discussions (again just in the past couple weeks) about it, and
the opportunities and value for both developers and customers are
intriguing.

As an independent developer, I also offer expertise in multiple
technologies with a network of trusted sub-contractors with whom I
regularly collaborate. Most FileMaker developers these days are still
on the hourly model, and lower hourly rates rarely mean a better value
for customers. So I guess the question should be "how much attention is
the developer I'm hiring going to give me"? If a customer is paying my
rate (which, by the way, is right up there with the top large firms),
they are getting my expertise. But when a customer pays the high rates
of a larger firm, they are rarely getting the most experienced developer
on staff to do the work, nor are the top dogs often even in the planning
meetings. While "more variety of expertise in FileMaker and other
technologies" often works well in marketing and sales pitches, it rarely
pans to benefit the customer in that way.

All that said, my original response was really meant to target the
original poster. Despite a "large and talented staff", none of them
EVER bother to help the community, either on this list nor on more
professional lists. Nor does the firm permit its employees to attend
local developer meetings that happen during the work day, despite the
opportunity for employees to learn quite a bit and to grow their
talents. And then the company's marketing guy bothers to post his
self-serving drivel here...well it just kind of irks me.

Howard

I hear what you are saying about pros and cons. Absolutely true. I, personally, have found it is less about the size of the firm and more about the quality of the individual developer. But, rereading your post, I see that you already were implying that. Guess I should have not read it so late atnight.

I think I agree with what you said. My intent wasn't to discount what was said, just offer another viewpoint.

The only things I slightly don't agree with:
1. "lower hourly rates rarely mean a better value for customers"
Mainly I bring this up, because too many clients feel that price = value.And we all know that is only partially true. Value in a custom solution is obviously more that just the price they pay. Not intended as a debate, just a clarification based on how I read things.

2. "Despite a 'large and talented staff', none of them EVER bother to helpthe community, either on this list nor on more professional lists. Nor does the firm permit its employees to attend local developer meetings that happen during the work day, despite the opportunity for employees to learn quite a bit and to grow their talents. And then the company's marketing guy bothers to post his
self-serving drivel here...well it just kind of irks me."

It would be nice to see some of them around more...I see a few around here and there, though. Not many, but a few. As for the local meetings, it mayhave more to do with the area/firm. From some of the blogs/lists/forums that I follow, or moderate...there are a number of quality, high-level developers at the meetings. But since I have actually been to them, I will haveto yield to others expertize.

I can see where the posting of some firms may irk some. But, on the other hand, a number of users/developers can benefit from the articles I see comeout of the many FileMaker companies...even if they seem to be vaguely masked marketing pieces. Check out the articles coming from Digital Fusion (inNew Zealand). Specifically "FileMaker Weetbicks". They are producing articles that are helpful, and Daniel is also a Moderator at FileMakerToday.com.
http://digitalfusion.co.nz/news/weetbicks/

True, that level of giving back isn't true of every company...but they exist. Maybe other companies will see what they are doing and will follow suit..